Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - happyman

Pages: 1 ... 53 54 [55] 56
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Hero of Ages Prologue
« on: August 01, 2008, 04:37:06 PM »
I'm still upset that Elend will be more powerful than Vin...
I mean, I like Elend fine, but I really liked how Vin was just... made of awesome.
I don't know, maybe I'm too biased. I like Vin far too much as a character.

Since it's speculation, it's a bit early to get upset.

Also Vin seems to have some other advantages.  Speculated Hemalurgy (piercing copperclouds)?  Burning the mists?  I suspect she will remain an interesting character in her own right through the end of HoA.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: Reen's obsidian
« on: July 27, 2008, 10:18:21 PM »
i have to point out that since the all powerful Ookla made his satement about sometimes pushing people if they were in the right dirrection and sometimes not the topic of conversation had a dramatic fall off. people stopped talking about their insane ideas and started talking about the plain validity of the topic. its it important? this just goes to show the kind of power said people have over us and how much i envy them. besides the point i am often a hypocrite and i enjoy being one. nothing is ever fun unless you can have it both ways.

That's just part of it.  The other reason no one has said anything is because there is nothing to be said.  The obsidian gets one paragraph of description, period.  At least the earring shows up a few more times and might (or might not!) be effecting Vin's magic.
EVERYTHING in the books points towards her earring having a HUGE significance in what she can do.  the odds of it being not what is helping is nil to none.

In any case I still stand that it was possibly intended for something big, then neglected, OR it was just being saved for a last minute bit of intuition from Vin.

I agree with your assessment about the earring.  I was trying to concede that the point was possible in pricinple.  Personally, though, I would be astounded if it didn't mean anything.

I am much less certain about the obsidian.  I could go either way on it, but we have almost nothing to go on about it.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: Reen's obsidian
« on: July 27, 2008, 03:38:01 AM »
i have to point out that since the all powerful Ookla made his satement about sometimes pushing people if they were in the right dirrection and sometimes not the topic of conversation had a dramatic fall off. people stopped talking about their insane ideas and started talking about the plain validity of the topic. its it important? this just goes to show the kind of power said people have over us and how much i envy them. besides the point i am often a hypocrite and i enjoy being one. nothing is ever fun unless you can have it both ways.

That's just part of it.  The other reason no one has said anything is because there is nothing to be said.  The obsidian gets one paragraph of description, period.  At least the earring shows up a few more times and might (or might not!) be effecting Vin's magic.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: Reen's obsidian
« on: July 23, 2008, 05:25:10 AM »
now no matter how many times the earring is mentioned it doesnt seem to have any underlying importance besides being a last ditch jumping or shooting anchor, so i dont really follow the idea of a huge importance with the obsidian.

So in your opinion, the countless posts regarding the earring are for naught?
Wait GreenMosta . . . . did you even READ teh books? Not to be rude or anything, but her earring has has been pivotal on many occasions. (I.E. The end of book one!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Ok i can undertand your reasoning and im not faulting it. that was part of my point. yes the earring has served as an important piece to Vin allomanticly but does it have any significane other than being a piece of metal stuck in her. because if your point is that the earring is important due to how she uses it then i agree but that also means that the obsidian could be important because she might use it as a last ditch way to kill someone with allomancy. and im kinda sure i already posted that idea. i think the items can be important situationally but not nesessarily deeply like some are trying to imply. now dont get me wrong im alwase down for a crazy idea or two so im not locked in but i like to point out that like you suggested about the earing being pivitol im sure a metal splinter would have been just as good.

The forums here consider the earring important because Vin's mother gave it to her after messily killing her sister.  Sorta like Marsh got spikes staked through him after several people were messily killed.

The bottom line is that Vin seems to have several powers that seem to be related to hemalurgy, not least of which is the ability to pierce copper-clouds.  The earring would then be a piercing, like the inquisitors spikes, which somehow give or maintain this power.  The sacrifice to give her this power would be her sister.  Thats why the earring has gotten all the forum-time, especially because we understand so little about hemalurgy.

However I'm intrigued by the notion that Reen knew enough about Allomancy to keep a non-Allomantic weapon handy.  That may well be meaningful as well.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: Vin as HOA?
« on: July 18, 2008, 08:06:49 PM »
Also, has anyone mentioned the possibility that the whole HoA prophecy was cooked up by Ruin? It seems possible that it has been lying in wait every age for the one person that would be able to release it from it's prison. First Alendi and now Vin. Maybe the prophecy is just another tool to lure such a person to the well.

Many, many times.  Those of us who think that there really was such a prophecy use the arguments I outlined in this thread:

Brandon Sanderson / Re: Reen's obsidian
« on: July 18, 2008, 07:59:16 PM »
I would think its right to assume that Reen moved at random intervals due to the Steel Ministry getting to close.
This is almost certainly true.

I would find it difficult however to believe the obsidian some how aided him in avoiding them or that it informed him of there presence. The thing is we already know that the Steel Ministry wasnt full of super spys, i mean if Camon's crew could hide from them then theres no reason Reen couldnt, and as far as we know until Vin comes along there was no reason for the ministry to be perticularly interested in him.
Especially because all magic systems that we have seen seem to have something to do with metals.  Metals and (somehow) the mists have been clearly outlined as the driving element behind all the magic in this world.  It doesn't seem like EUOL to break that rule just to drive a perfectly manageable plot point.

Now i understand that there is alot about Reen we dont know such as the reason the steel ministry would be interested in him
They weren't interested in him.  They were interested in Vin.  Vin was the center of their ploy to gain control of the ministry by proving Lord Tevidan's corruption, which they succeeded at at the end of MB1.  They tried to find Reen because Reen was with Vin or knew where Vin was.

but i do how ever think you hit on something with the obsidian. is may not be an item of power but it could abssolutely be one of significance. maybe that piece of obsidian had something to do with Vins obligator father? or maybe it had been fashined as an indication of. . .  i dont know the significane but i can feel that its probably important. my bad on my BUSHY imput
It may be significant, but it seems unlikely to be magical.  Unless we find any further hints (or, in fact, ever see it mentioned again) it may just be an indicator of the kind of person Reen was.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: Ruin and Preservation
« on: July 17, 2008, 08:26:39 PM »
But maybe not just certain people like Alendi... Maybe Marsh could if he tried. Maybe he does, but since it controls him, it doesn't help him much... Maybe Vin could, if she knew to even try.

I got the very distinct impression from the prologue to MB3 that Marsh could indeed read at least part of Ruin's thoughts.  He could hear him exulting over his escape, among other things.  This didn't do him much good, though.  Man, that's nightmare fodder right there.

Alendi may well have been able to sense Ruin's thoughts through the piercings.  On the other hand, it doesn't seem to fit quite right.  What we've seen of Ruin actually enjoys the destruction and pain it's causing.  It gloats over Zane and enjoys killing the victims by controlling Marsh.  Alendi's description of the Deepness seems more---clinical.  It destroys because destruction is what it does.  I'm inclined to see the Deepness as something Ruin made or changed rather than Ruin itself.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: HOA Prophecy?
« on: July 17, 2008, 05:29:46 PM »
I think I agree about the original force behind the prophecy not being Preservation, due to the fact that it would mention using the power to prevent Ruins release. The only snag I find is that if ruin can affect the prophecy while being bound in the well of ascention how is it that Preservation affects the world? If you have read the prologue to HOA then you are aware that once released Ruin can control the inquisitors. Do you think that through Hermuology that Preservation may have been the voice that was heard by Zane and possibly Vin's mother? The idea is that if Ruin could alter the prophecy and preservation is a like power of some sort, why would preservation not do the same thing and alter the prophecy to aid itself by making the person who made it to the well of ascension use the power?

A lot of the things you are proposing are things that have been previously discussed, especially the bits amout Vin's mom and Zane.  Zane certainly heard Ruin in his head.  Most posters suspect that Vin's mom also wasn't strictly insane but was hearing either Ruin or Preservation, probably Ruin.  Hemalurgy certainly seems to have something to do with the connection.  Please read the comprehensive hemalurgy thread as well as the Ruin and Preservation threads to see what's been discussed.  I believe that their is also a thread devoted to Vin's mother.

As to where the prophecies have come from...that's a good question.  It's been heavily debated elsewhere with no real consensus.  We just don't know.  The Kandra seem to have some answers, but where did they get their answers from?  Just repeat to yourself:  October, October, October...

Brandon Sanderson / Re: Rashek's hatred not misplaced
« on: July 16, 2008, 07:50:59 PM »
Yesterday I wrote up a big rant about how we know there are some things that Ruin hasn't messed with.  I made essentially the same points as Comatose made:

1) Ruin could not change too much too quickly.  Normal people would notice.  There was almost certainly a verbal tradition in addition to the Worldbringer's metalminds (people had heard the stories before).  Anything that drew attention to itself was dangerous.

2) Even when Ruin did make changes, it had to make them slowly.  If it could have, it would have almost certainly changed Kwaan's document to be less contradictory, more consistent.  Instead, it focused its efforts on the parts that referred to itself explicitly.  Given the fact that the contradictions almost led to it not being released, I think we can view this as an inherent limitation on the speed with which it could make changes.  I.e. it could only make a few changes over the course of several months.

3) Kwaan himself notes that the changes were subtle.  This supports #1 and #2 above.  It's power was limited in clear ways.

4) Ruin is clearly not omniscient.  It had to adjust the situation to the as it changed, and it didn't know how it would change.  We can see this by the way changes to the "Hero of Ages" prophecy happened within Kwaan's lifetime to match Alendi---if Ruin could have seen far enough in the future, it could have matched Alendi well in advance.  We also see this in the way Sazed's document was changed---it responded to events as they happened.  Slowly.

5) Most important of all, it's power has not always been active in the world.  Why do I say this?  Here's the quote:

The prophecies have changed.  They now tell Alendi that he must give up the power once he takes it.  This is not what was once implied by the texts--they were more vague.  And yet, the new version seems to make it a moral imperative.  The texts now outline terrible consequences if the Hero of Ages takes the power for himself.

This is easily the most important part of the prophecies, the thing that Ruin absolutely had to change in order to get free.  Surely it could have changed them without knowing the Hero of Ages, given that it groomed the "Hero" for the role?  If it's power were as extensive as some of you seem to imply, these changes should have been the slowest changes, and done well in advance.  Instead, the change happened within Kwaan's lifetime in a way he could notice.  Thus we can conclude that Ruin only had a small window of opportunity to change the documents, and in fact it failed to get free that time because the window was too small.

From this we can come to some conclusions:

A) Ruin focused only on those changes most advantageous to itself, due to its limited time and ability.  Most documents, even those that contradicted its version of events, were probably ignored simply because they didn't matter.  Getting the hero to focus on its version would be the best use of its resources.  Thus unless the prophecy needed to be changed to get Alendi or Vin to the well (or otherwise forward Ruin's plans), we can probably assume it is correct.

B) Most of the time between TLRer's ascension and MB2, Ruin probably couldn't affect the world at all.  Most documents and metalminds from this time are almost certainly untouched.

C) We can probably tease out some truths from things that are sufficiently vague.  There is no reason for Ruin to change them unless it sees a profit in it.  Alendi's second-hand quote certainly applies here.

Thus I feel that we can make some predictions based on the prophecies.  When we argue about whether something has been changed or not, the above considerations should be applied.  I've been trying to find the time when Tindwyl and Sazed were discussing contradictions between different sources on the hero's height, but I can't seem to find them and don't have the time for a reread.

My $.02.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: Hero of Ages Prologue
« on: July 15, 2008, 07:24:08 PM »
A lot of people ended the second book scarred. Vin, Elend, Sazed, Breeze, Marsh (though he kind of started out the book scarred). I think it'll be interesting to see how they all cope.

Yeah, the ending actually reminded me a lot of how I felt after "The Empire Strikes Back."  It has a lot of the same flavor.  Everybody has hit rock-bottom, and its time for those left to crawl back up.

This comes from it being the second part of a trilogy, of course.  Neither Mistborn nor Star Wars were the first to use it.  Welcome to the three-act play!

I don't know how Sazed will react, but I personally do not believe his faith has been shattered as thoroughly as he thinks.  When we get depressed, we have a tendency to say-and do-things that we don't really mean.  Of course, I thoroughly expect this depression of his to last some time.  He's bit hit with some serious whammies.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: Rashek's hatred not misplaced
« on: July 15, 2008, 04:56:30 PM »
As for the prophecies - seeing as it has been proven that Ruin changes the words to fit his plans, we really can't rely on them for any theories related to book 3, other than the fact that nothing written down on paper or stored in metalminds can be trusted.

We've also seen that Ruin's power to change prophecies was sharply limited.  Basically, it focused its efforts only on the ones needed to get it free.  Thus if we quote a prophecy and you want to claim that it is false, you must first show a reason for it to have been changed, rather than dismissing it outright.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: Vin's Mom
« on: July 14, 2008, 08:04:57 PM »
Right, Ruin isn't omnipotent, or even totally omnicient, he can't see what people think, but is nearly so (as it says on the book description.
And besides, even if Ruin could off Vin with a thought (I don;t believe he can, at least not yet, he's still looking for something remember, and once he finds it methinks Vin won't matter much then anyway, Perphaps he has future plans for Vin.

The difficulty with this is that we don't know what Ruin can do now that it is free.

While it was trapped in the well, it was obviously constrained, and we get some feel for just how constrained by looking both at what it did and didn't do.  It couldn't alter Kwaan's mind or metal slab, for instance.  But it could control the Steel Inquisitors to some extent, which probably explains why they were so bloodthirsty even before TLR was killed.

We get from the MB3 prologue that something is still holding it back (Preservation or some of Preservation's power is an obvious candidate), so even free it's not omnipotent.  Unfortunately, barring the book itself we have no way of gauging just what it can do now.  It seems likely that it cannot read minds because it used the steel inquisitors to torture the Terrismen, but that may just as well be due to Preservation's general protection.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: Rashek's hatred not misplaced
« on: July 14, 2008, 07:56:51 PM »
well if no woman can claim him, its very obviously not Vin... ::)
and actually yes many of the prophecies fit Sazed perfectly. i forget, is he tall, short, or average?

He's tall.  It's one of the first things Vin notices about him; it's due to his status as both a eunuch and a Terrisman.  It is mentioned several times in MB1.  With many of the other Terrismen and -women dead, he may well stick out as one of the tallest people around.

It's also one of the things that really got me thinking about him as a possibility  :).  The "no woman may claim him" bit seems to work in a perverse sort of way as well.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« on: July 14, 2008, 01:24:42 AM »
One interesting note:

While rereading Mistborn 1 on Friday, I think it said that the spike connecting the eyes and the rest of the body was made out of steel.  It's during the showdown with TLR when Marsh destroys all the Inquisitors in Kredik Shaw.

Brandon Sanderson / Re: Vin's Mom
« on: July 14, 2008, 12:51:25 AM »
That's a really interesting point. So you're saying that her mother knew her future through Ruin? The only problem with that is that ruin would see her working against it (ruin), and would arrange for her to be killed as soon as it was freed, which apparently hasn't happened.

We keep acting as if Ruin was omnipotent!  There's all kinds of evidence that Ruin can only do so much.  Just getting free was apparently a huge amount of work for it.  It may have prepared for after getting free, but there's no guarantee that it would succeed at whatever it planned, let along succeed in an attempted assassination.

Pages: 1 ... 53 54 [55] 56