Author Topic: Ruin and Preservation  (Read 43194 times)

Chaos

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #210 on: July 16, 2008, 07:00:31 AM »
Okay, this theory is pretty cool, but if Preservation is trapped in a body, then what is the mist spirit? How does that work out?
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #211 on: July 16, 2008, 08:24:56 AM »
One thing I noticed is that Ruin is able to influence Feruchemy and Hemalurgy. Why can it not influence Allomancers? Maybe both Feruchemy and Hemalurgy are of Ruin, seeing as how it has free run with their powers.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #212 on: July 16, 2008, 10:14:43 AM »
thats an interesting idea, Preservation trapped in the mist spirit. I had trouble believing Preservation was trapped in Vin; after all, if its protecting the entire world you would think it could protect Vin from Ruin's influence, but this idea makes a bit more sense.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 03:20:24 PM by Reaves »
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #213 on: July 16, 2008, 07:55:37 PM »
I don't think teh mist spirit is of Preservation, seeing as how the mists are a balance between the two, maybe the mist spirit is simply and ebodiment of balance?
And Ruin CAN manipulate feruchemy and hemalurgy, and I think PReservation can as well, the reason they can't manipulate allomancy I think is because allomancy is of balance as well, which is why it attracts the mists, remember, the mist spirit uses emotional allomancy?
And as for Vin, Ruin ISN'T able to influence her much, all he can do is show her the way to the well, and Perhaps Preservation can't protect Vin, BECAUSE it is in her.  If it could affect Vin, couldn't it find a way to get her to free it, or free itself?  I still think Preservation is inside of Vin, and not the mist spirit, I used to think it was the mist spirit, but if the msits are of balance, then how could they trap Preservation.  The book itself says they are of stability and chaos.
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Qarlin

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #214 on: July 16, 2008, 11:59:31 PM »
Stability and Chaos... says there's something in the mists that we may not be paying enough attention to. Balance may be it, but it may have to do with the Deepness as well.

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #215 on: July 17, 2008, 01:50:52 AM »
Yes, the mists must be far more crucial than most of us think. So much revolves around them...mistborn, hemalurgists, the Deepness, etc etc
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #216 on: July 17, 2008, 02:27:21 AM »
The trilogy is named Mistborn, I think the mists really are the key element, that ties everything else together.  It all hinges on the mist somehow, we just have to figure out all the connections.
The deepness also confuses me, is it really just a vehicle Ruin used to escape, and then to destroy the world, or is it something more?
In the logbook, Alendi says he confronts the mind of the deepness directly, and it is sentient, but it jsut wants to destroy because that is what it does.  How does he confront the mind of the deepness.  Perhaps he is seeing into the mind of Ruin through his hemalurgical piercings.  Perhaps these piercing not only lead him to Ruin, but also let him confront Ruin, and shield him from being controlled?  Maybe they are preservation fuelled piercings, who knows?  Or perhaps, the deepness is another being, who merely sides with Ruin:
Think of it this way. there are two super god powers: Ruin and Preservation, and two Mist Creatures: The Deepness on Ruin's side, and the Mist Spirit on Preservation's side.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #217 on: July 17, 2008, 07:09:09 PM »
And in like effect, there are two mists; one that kills, and one that doesn't. But we can't seem to tell them apart, because they're both mist.

Reaves

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #218 on: July 17, 2008, 07:12:56 PM »
The trilogy is named Mistborn, I think the mists really are the key element, that ties everything else together.  It all hinges on the mist somehow, we just have to figure out all the connections.
The deepness also confuses me, is it really just a vehicle Ruin used to escape, and then to destroy the world, or is it something more?
In the logbook, Alendi says he confronts the mind of the deepness directly, and it is sentient, but it jsut wants to destroy because that is what it does.  How does he confront the mind of the deepness.  Perhaps he is seeing into the mind of Ruin through his hemalurgical piercings.  Perhaps these piercing not only lead him to Ruin, but also let him confront Ruin, and shield him from being controlled?  Maybe they are preservation fuelled piercings, who knows?  Or perhaps, the deepness is another being, who merely sides with Ruin:
Think of it this way. there are two super god powers: Ruin and Preservation, and two Mist Creatures: The Deepness on Ruin's side, and the Mist Spirit on Preservation's side.

Perhaps hemalurgical piercings are almost a two-way connection to Ruin. For most people it allows Ruin access to their thoughts and actions, but for certain people like Alendi it allows them to see into the mind of Ruin.
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Qarlin

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #219 on: July 17, 2008, 07:19:19 PM »
But maybe not just certain people like Alendi... Maybe Marsh could if he tried. Maybe he does, but since it controls him, it doesn't help him much... Maybe Vin could, if she knew to even try.

EDIT: On another note, anyone have any theories as to why Preservation doesn't speak so often? We have a few instances, but it doesn't seem as vocal as Ruin. Also, Preservation may be the reason why Ruin couldn't alter the Prophecies more than it did.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 07:27:31 PM by Qarlin »

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #220 on: July 17, 2008, 08:26:39 PM »
But maybe not just certain people like Alendi... Maybe Marsh could if he tried. Maybe he does, but since it controls him, it doesn't help him much... Maybe Vin could, if she knew to even try.

I got the very distinct impression from the prologue to MB3 that Marsh could indeed read at least part of Ruin's thoughts.  He could hear him exulting over his escape, among other things.  This didn't do him much good, though.  Man, that's nightmare fodder right there.

Alendi may well have been able to sense Ruin's thoughts through the piercings.  On the other hand, it doesn't seem to fit quite right.  What we've seen of Ruin actually enjoys the destruction and pain it's causing.  It gloats over Zane and enjoys killing the victims by controlling Marsh.  Alendi's description of the Deepness seems more---clinical.  It destroys because destruction is what it does.  I'm inclined to see the Deepness as something Ruin made or changed rather than Ruin itself.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #221 on: July 17, 2008, 08:36:52 PM »
Then perhaps it IS the mind of the Deepness he is looking into, and the Deepness and Ruin are separate entities.  I was wondering, if maybe the Mist Spirit is and embodiment of balance between ruin and Preservation, and is seeking to balance the two, and the Deepness is an embodiment of imbalance and seeks to keep them imbalanced: IE) when Ruin is more powerful, the deepness seeks to destroy the world, when Preservation is more powerful (during the Lord Ruler's reign) the Deepness is not there in the form it was.  Perhaps, the Lord Ruler absorbed the deepness into himself, and since Preservation was more powerful, he tried to keep it that way, by preserving the world to the point of stagnation.
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #222 on: July 19, 2008, 08:14:05 AM »
So what is holding Ruin back? Where is Preservation? I don't think that it's in Vin, maybe... Crap forgot the name of the city where the atium may be... has something to do with Preservation. If TLR did just take the deepness into himself then why did it not fully return with his death? Sure the mists are killing, but are they killing to the extent of the deepness?
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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #223 on: July 19, 2008, 05:31:04 PM »
Well, I think they are, it just took a while to come back, that's all, it hit outwards of the empire first, then worked it's way in to the well of ascension.
That will also be interesting about book 3, Vin may have to be afraid to go out in the mists again. and I don't think she's going to like that considering how she loves the mists now.

EDIT
And I think it is PReservation holding Ruin back, even though it is trapped (possibly inside a person).  Remember Ruin could influence quite a lot, even though he was trapped in the well, who's to say Preservation can't protect the world even though it is trapped.  If Preservation was free, it would be just as powerful as Ruin, and then Ruin would have hardly any influence at all because they would cancel eachother's influence out, and there would be balance, since Ruin has the advantage, I'm pretty sure it means Preservation is trapped in some way.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 05:36:46 PM by Comatose »
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SarahG

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Re: Ruin and Preservation
« Reply #224 on: July 23, 2008, 04:12:50 PM »
I just found an interesting quote that may challenge the theory about TLR doing everything from Preservation.  It's when the Inquisitors are appealing to take over authority from the obligators.

MB1, p.602
Quote
The Lord Ruler waved a dismissive hand.  "It is good for them to get purged every century or so.  It fosters instability, keeps the aristocracy from growing too confident.  Usually, I let them kill each other in one of their foolish wars, but these riots will work."
emphasis added

Instability sounds more like Ruin to me than Preservation.  I guess it could be seen as a way to preserve his rule, though, in that it weakens the nobility's security and therefore their power to challenge him.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 04:16:29 PM by SarahG »
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