Author Topic: Reen's obsidian  (Read 25298 times)

Miyabi

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2008, 09:03:26 PM »
now no matter how many times the earring is mentioned it doesnt seem to have any underlying importance besides being a last ditch jumping or shooting anchor, so i dont really follow the idea of a huge importance with the obsidian.

So in your opinion, the countless posts regarding the earring are for naught?
Wait GreenMosta . . . . did you even READ teh books?  Not to be rude or anything, but her earring has has been pivotal on many occasions.  (I.E. The end of book one!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2008, 10:03:10 PM »
While the implied significance of Reen's obsidian exists, it is much more likely that a Skaa thief who had a more advanced understanding of allomancy than most other Skaa would choose to keep an unassuming, undetectable weapon in his possession.  I know this isn't a very sexy theory, but not every block can be the keystone, can it?
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SarahG

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2008, 10:27:11 PM »
Yes, but why did Reen leave it behind on that fateful day?  Did he just carelessly forget to put it in his pocket?
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Miyabi

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2008, 10:48:16 PM »
Yes, but why did Reen leave it behind on that fateful day?  Did he just carelessly forget to put it in his pocket?
Probably leaving it behind hoping that Vin would figure it out eventually.
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GreenMonsta

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2008, 10:58:39 PM »
now no matter how many times the earring is mentioned it doesnt seem to have any underlying importance besides being a last ditch jumping or shooting anchor, so i dont really follow the idea of a huge importance with the obsidian.

So in your opinion, the countless posts regarding the earring are for naught?
Wait GreenMosta . . . . did you even READ teh books? Not to be rude or anything, but her earring has has been pivotal on many occasions. (I.E. The end of book one!!!!!!!!!!!!)


Ok i can undertand your reasoning and im not faulting it. that was part of my point. yes the earring has served as an important piece to Vin allomanticly but does it have any significane other than being a piece of metal stuck in her. because if your point is that the earring is important due to how she uses it then i agree but that also means that the obsidian could be important because she might use it as a last ditch way to kill someone with allomancy. and im kinda sure i already posted that idea. i think the items can be important situationally but not nesessarily deeply like some are trying to imply. now dont get me wrong im alwase down for a crazy idea or two so im not locked in but i like to point out that like you suggested about the earing being pivitol im sure a metal splinter would have been just as good.
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Reaves

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2008, 11:50:51 PM »

Quote
Ok i can undertand your reasoning and im not faulting it. that was part of my point. yes the earring has served as an important piece to Vin allomanticly but does it have any significane other than being a piece of metal stuck in her. because if your point is that the earring is important due to how she uses it then i agree but that also means that the obsidian could be important because she might use it as a last ditch way to kill someone with allomancy. and im kinda sure i already posted that idea. i think the items can be important situationally but not nesessarily deeply like some are trying to imply. now dont get me wrong im alwase down for a crazy idea or two so im not locked in but i like to point out that like you suggested about the earing being pivitol im sure a metal splinter would have been just as good.

Only if the metal splinter in question involves the sacrifice of Vin's sister...
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 12:30:29 AM by Reaves »
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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2008, 11:57:38 PM »
I'm not sure what to make of the quote.

I am near certain that the earring is crucial to the story as portend in many of the threads on this forum. Brandon mentions the earring as part of the collection and then goes into detail about the obsidian and in parting fashion, offhands a single short sentence regarding the earring. The obsidian appears to be a masterfully placed red herring; then OtM mentions red herring and creates a whole new dilema.

But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of Ookla. Are you the sort of Mok who would purposely mention red herring when one doesn't exist, to create a red herring? Now, a clever man...
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Reaves

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2008, 12:31:51 AM »
I'm not sure what to make of the quote.

I am near certain that the earring is crucial to the story as portend in many of the threads on this forum. Brandon mentions the earring as part of the collection and then goes into detail about the obsidian and in parting fashion, offhands a single short sentence regarding the earring. The obsidian appears to be a masterfully placed red herring; then OtM mentions red herring and creates a whole new dilema.

But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of Ookla. Are you the sort of Mok who would purposely mention red herring when one doesn't exist, to create a red herring? Now, a clever man...

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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2008, 01:15:09 AM »
I sometimes give hints when I think someone's close to a breakthrough. But sometimes I make misdirecting comments...when I think someone's close to a breakthrough. ;)
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happyman

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2008, 05:25:10 AM »
now no matter how many times the earring is mentioned it doesnt seem to have any underlying importance besides being a last ditch jumping or shooting anchor, so i dont really follow the idea of a huge importance with the obsidian.

So in your opinion, the countless posts regarding the earring are for naught?
Wait GreenMosta . . . . did you even READ teh books? Not to be rude or anything, but her earring has has been pivotal on many occasions. (I.E. The end of book one!!!!!!!!!!!!)


Ok i can undertand your reasoning and im not faulting it. that was part of my point. yes the earring has served as an important piece to Vin allomanticly but does it have any significane other than being a piece of metal stuck in her. because if your point is that the earring is important due to how she uses it then i agree but that also means that the obsidian could be important because she might use it as a last ditch way to kill someone with allomancy. and im kinda sure i already posted that idea. i think the items can be important situationally but not nesessarily deeply like some are trying to imply. now dont get me wrong im alwase down for a crazy idea or two so im not locked in but i like to point out that like you suggested about the earing being pivitol im sure a metal splinter would have been just as good.

The forums here consider the earring important because Vin's mother gave it to her after messily killing her sister.  Sorta like Marsh got spikes staked through him after several people were messily killed.

The bottom line is that Vin seems to have several powers that seem to be related to hemalurgy, not least of which is the ability to pierce copper-clouds.  The earring would then be a piercing, like the inquisitors spikes, which somehow give or maintain this power.  The sacrifice to give her this power would be her sister.  Thats why the earring has gotten all the forum-time, especially because we understand so little about hemalurgy.

However I'm intrigued by the notion that Reen knew enough about Allomancy to keep a non-Allomantic weapon handy.  That may well be meaningful as well.
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Miyabi

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2008, 06:50:52 AM »
now no matter how many times the earring is mentioned it doesnt seem to have any underlying importance besides being a last ditch jumping or shooting anchor, so i dont really follow the idea of a huge importance with the obsidian.

So in your opinion, the countless posts regarding the earring are for naught?
Wait GreenMosta . . . . did you even READ teh books? Not to be rude or anything, but her earring has has been pivotal on many occasions. (I.E. The end of book one!!!!!!!!!!!!)


Ok i can undertand your reasoning and im not faulting it. that was part of my point. yes the earring has served as an important piece to Vin allomanticly but does it have any significane other than being a piece of metal stuck in her. because if your point is that the earring is important due to how she uses it then i agree but that also means that the obsidian could be important because she might use it as a last ditch way to kill someone with allomancy. and im kinda sure i already posted that idea. i think the items can be important situationally but not nesessarily deeply like some are trying to imply. now dont get me wrong im alwase down for a crazy idea or two so im not locked in but i like to point out that like you suggested about the earing being pivitol im sure a metal splinter would have been just as good.

The forums here consider the earring important because Vin's mother gave it to her after messily killing her sister.  Sorta like Marsh got spikes staked through him after several people were messily killed.

The bottom line is that Vin seems to have several powers that seem to be related to hemalurgy, not least of which is the ability to pierce copper-clouds.  The earring would then be a piercing, like the inquisitors spikes, which somehow give or maintain this power.  The sacrifice to give her this power would be her sister.  Thats why the earring has gotten all the forum-time, especially because we understand so little about hemalurgy.

However I'm intrigued by the notion that Reen knew enough about Allomancy to keep a non-Allomantic weapon handy.  That may well be meaningful as well.
Well, we never know if Reen's father is the same as Vin's or not.  He could potentially have been an allomancer himself.  PLUS we never are told what happens to him.  He could be out there somewhere still. ;)
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Czanos

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2008, 07:40:49 AM »
The forums here consider the earring important because Vin's mother gave it to her after messily killing her sister.  Sorta like Marsh got spikes staked through him after several people were messily killed.

The bottom line is that Vin seems to have several powers that seem to be related to hemalurgy, not least of which is the ability to pierce copper-clouds.  The earring would then be a piercing, like the inquisitors spikes, which somehow give or maintain this power.  The sacrifice to give her this power would be her sister.  Thats why the earring has gotten all the forum-time, especially because we understand so little about hemalurgy.

However I'm intrigued by the notion that Reen knew enough about Allomancy to keep a non-Allomantic weapon handy.  That may well be meaningful as well.

I'm not so sure we should dismiss Vin's earring being a red herring so easily. Is it stated anywhere for sure that piercing copper clouds is a Hemalurgic ability? It could be something akin to not being able to affect metals in someone's body, but with less of a strength barrier. All the people who can pierce copper clouds are very Allomantically powerful in and of their own right, and Marsh even tells Vin when he's first training her that most Allomancers dismiss Bronze as one of the weakest powers.

Of course, Vin is strange in other ways as well, so the mystery continues . . .

And Miyabi, when the Inquisitors are interrogating Vin at the end of Mistborn one, I'm pretty sure they mention that they captured Reen and tortured him to death trying to extract Vin's whereabouts. It's true they could have been lying, but I can't see a very good motive for them to make up such an unhelpful story.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 07:44:19 AM by Czanos »
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Reaves

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2008, 10:13:38 AM »
the only thing is, in one of the annotations Sanderson mentioned Reen being important. Whether that means he is still alive we don't really know.
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SarahG

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2008, 04:07:38 PM »
I sometimes give hints when I think someone's close to a breakthrough. But sometimes I make misdirecting comments...when I think someone's close to a breakthrough. ;)

Well, I guess that's good news - either way, it means we're close to a breakthrough.  Unless Ookla neglected to mention that he also gives hints and makes misdirecting comments when someone's way off on a wild tangent.

Only a great fool would reach for the herring he was given.  We are not great fools, so we can clearly not accept the herring.  But Ookla knew we were not great fools - he would have counted on it - so we can clearly not ignore the herring.

OK, we can quote that movie for the rest of this thread and I'll be happy.  What makes it funny is that most of our theories and arguments do sound a lot like Vicini trying to win the battle of wits.  Almost every argument we can make has a counter-argument, using the same evidence to prove the opposite point.

But it's my opinion that the counter-arguments to the earring's importance are pretty weak.  That would be way too much of a red herring, even for EUOL, I think.  The obsidian, on the other hand, probably is pretty much an insignificant detail.  Who knows, though?  It's fun to speculate.

As for Reen being still out there, here's the quote:
MB1, p. 610
Quote
"Sold you out?"  Kar said.  "He died promising us that you had starved to death years ago!  He screamed it night and day beneath the hands of Ministry torturers."

I agree with Czanos that the Inquisitors wouldn't have much reason to lie.  I believe that the annotation refers to something else we'll discover about Reen, perhaps connected with Ruin; I don't think it means he's still alive.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 04:15:17 PM by SarahG »
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Reen's obsidian
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2008, 09:14:10 PM »
I sometimes give hints when I think someone's close to a breakthrough. But sometimes I make misdirecting comments...when I think someone's close to a breakthrough. ;)

Well, I guess that's good news - either way, it means we're close to a breakthrough.  Unless Ookla neglected to mention that he also gives hints and makes misdirecting comments when someone's way off on a wild tangent.

Only a great fool would reach for the herring he was given.  We are not great fools, so we can clearly not accept the herring.  But Ookla knew we were not great fools - he would have counted on it - so we can clearly not ignore the herring.
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