So what is everybody playing?

[Nicadymus]

But of course Fell!! We were running drills on various combat scenerios to keep up with those tactics should we be sent into a combat environment.  Still, I thought it was a lot of fun playing a glorified version of laser tag.

[Fellfrosch]

Cool, that's what I thought. Just makin' sure.

[Nicadymus]

Ok. I need some advice from some gaming experts, and I thought this would be the best place to look.

So hears the deal.  My friends and I are starting up a d20 campaign in a world of my own design.  But I am running into a few concerns and I would like to bounce the ideas off of a few people so that I can get a fresh perspective on the situation before the campaign begins.  Here goes...

Noldaerthroll is a fantasy based world that pulls elements from many different fantasy backgrounds.  Some of the major events/uniqueness of the world are as follows:

(1) There was a Druid named Yreatius Asheai who, due to his loyalty to the Order, was granted the ability to see 4th Dimensionally.  In essence he could view everything from the beginning until the end of time.  He learned, through his glorified scrying, that the gods can only manifest their powers on a plane of existence if several things occur:
  (a) They have enough faithful followers.
  (b) They have an avatar.

(2) He misinturpretted his acquisition of this knowledge as a call from Nature to banish the gods from Nodaerthroll.  In order to accomplish this he constructed a series of magic artifacts that, when combined and manipulated, erected a barrier that blocked the gods' connections to their avatar, and, in essence, prevented all the clerics on the world from receiving divine magic.

(3) He then led a crusade against all of the other religous orders, and, with the aid of all those loyal to the druidic faith, destroyed any who would not abandon the gods.  During this crusade, the elves and gnomes were slaughtered as they would not abandon their faith. (Naturally there is a more indepth story to what happend, but we can get into that if necessary).

(4) In the end the druidic forces were victorious and the world was rid of the gods.  In the time that has passed Yreatias has seen that he has nearly achieved godhood himself and turns his back on nature when he realizes that he violated the balance nature had established eons ago (welcome the first Blighter; see Masters of the Wild).

(5) Since the time that has passed the world has evolved and several new races have come about:
   (a) the Fellinoin, a race of feline-like humanoids similar to the captain in Treasure Planet
   (b) the Kaynian, a race of evolved Gnolls that are much more intelligent, though smaller in stature to their cousins
   (c) the Velacirius, a race very similar in nature to the raptors in Jurasic Park, but averaging 5 feet in height and very high intellect
   (d) the ogre race has evolved and is much more intellegent and led by a counsel of ogre magi

(6) Also, as is typical, every race had divided into its own domain.  The exception to this is in the city of Five Points where a counsel of mages, known as The Conclave rules a grand magocracy from their College of Wizardry (ala Dragonlance).  Five points is the major trade center of the world, and the best way to describe it is Coruscant (from Star Wars) with a fantasy flare.

(7) This is a magic rich environment, and while not completely loved, it is much more accepted than any other world I have yet encountered in fantasy game play.  Sorcerers and clerics don't exist and Bards learn and prepare spells as wizards do.

So, what does everyone think?  Please feel free to point out any flaws you might see and any  recommendations you may have.

Oh I was also told that I should make note that this is pending copyright. One of my friends is trying to get me to write a book about the world.  I don't know if it is worthy of that, but I just thought that I would mention it incase it changes anyones opinion.  Also, would you please let me know if you think that this is a solid enough foundation to even continue with his, what I see as somewhat ludicrous idea.

[Fellfrosch]

Why are sorcerers gone? Are there any paladins?

Also, what are the concerns you said you had?

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

technically, once you've written it down, it's copyrighted, so it's not pending at all.

Ok, i've read it, what sort of feedback do you want?

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Oh, i have a thought. So has this druid guy just replaced the pantheon? So there's a new god?
If so, how is this different besides a different pool of player races?

[Nicadymus]

ok. Let me see if I can answer some of the questions.

First. As of right now there are no Paladins.  They require a deific entity. One could argue that their could be a "druidic paladin" and that was one of the first problems I encountered.  How would you alter their spell lists, and class features to fit into a world where the primary "deific entity" is a "neutral" force of nature?  Would they be required to maintain a specific alignment? How would that impact their powers? and the list goes on and on. Any advice regarding how this class is impacted by the lack of gods would be nice, and how, if possible, they could be worked into the game mechanics.

Second. Sorcerers.  I suppose I misspoke when I said that they do not exist.  It would be realatively easy to incorporate them into the world.  The main reason as to why I was heading in the direction of excluding them is that the College of Wizardry hunts down and subdues/kills any mage who does not eventually take the Trials (see Dragonlance).  A group of sorcerers would not require the study of that which is necessitated by the wizards, and could come to rival them in power.  Perhaps this would be an excellent story addition, but it would alter the focus of magic that I wished to pursue, that being that anyone could learn magic if they choose to study it.  The only thing hindering them would be their mental attributes (aka int score).  If you add in Sorcerers you run across the problem of those who need little to no Int. and who don't actually learn anything.  It is more an innate ability.
Any thoughts on this?

Third. Yreatius has not achieved godhood, yet. And he has turned his back on the source of his mystical power (see the Blighter Pres. Class in Masters of the Wild). So, as far as I see it, there still are no gods except Nature (aka the power that grants Druids their divine gifts).
The big hitch is this.  When someone dies, instead of their souls traveling to a "happy little afterlife," they are banished to a void and their souls eventually degrade into nothingness.  Unless you are a follower of the Druidic Faith.  This places druids in a role that I don't believe they have ever been placed in...that of the "all powerful religious sect" and, as Nature itself has both creative and destructive forces, so too does the Druidic Faith.

One of the major conflicts that I predict happening, though I am not sure as the group is still in the character generation process, is that the group, knowing what I do of them as players, are going to have a problem with their characters loosing their souls, and are going to, eventually, desire the acquisition of the artifacts used to manipulate the Barrier that blocks the gods access to the realm, and use that as a bargaining chip to gain immortality and/or deific status themselves.  As of right now the three who have expressed an interest in the game have desired to play wizards, one as a fellinoin, one as a Velacirius, and one as a minotaur.

I don't know if this has sparked any thoughts on the wy the game mechanics will be adjusted by the total lack of deities, or if I am just worrying more than I should.  In any event. Does this seem as though it will function as a storyline for the campaign? Do the limitations on classes make sense, and/or how should those limitations be altered and why? Is the plot to simplistic in it's nature to be a provocative storyline?  If they all end up playing wizards will that be too restrictive in combat/mechanics/plot? Etc.

Those are some of the concerns that I have thought of, and I would just like a few people who haven't spent the last few months in the creation process to offer some insite into the general workings of the campaign/story.

Thanks for all of your help.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Ok, here's what I think.

Sorcerers are hard to call. Is anyone bucking to be a sorcerer? if not, you don't even need to consider it, just leave it out. If so, you should consider letting them be it, and make that a major element of the game -- he could be a freak as far as ability goes, and so the Wizards want to hunt him down a la Planet of the Apes.

Sounds like the artifact is a great over all campaign plot device. Use it.

[Nicadymus]

Thanks SE...

No body is bucking to play a sorcerer, and I agreed with you as far as not worrying about that aspect because it wasn't of immediate concern.  Do you see any problems with the whole "Deific System" for lack of a better term, and how Yreatius plays into the scenerio?

What about the whole paladin issue? any thoughts on that?

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I guess I want to understand better how/if non-druid clerics work. Is the druid the only "healer" of the campaign? I think that works fine. Mostly be consistent. If there are no paladins, there are no clerics, and vice versa.

On the other hand, it'd be intriguing to have a paladin (but no cleric) who gains some powers by force of will alone, trying to restore the worship of the other gods. They obviously wouldn't be the same, so you'd have to come up with a new class progression (or at least alter the existing one), but I think it'd be worth it.

also, how much is this Yreatius  going to be involved with the players and events in the campaign world? Right now it sounds like he's leaving it more and more as he gets more powerful.

[Nicadymus]

Ok.  Let me see if I can help with the Yreatius thing.  He has pretty much turned his back on the Druidic Order at this point in his life because he feels slighted by Nature for causing him to almost become the very thing that he was trying to banish from Noldaerthroll.  So, for the most part, he will take a back seat to the events of the world, as you have predicted, until such time as someone (most likely the players' characters) threaten to destroy/alter the barrier that prevents the gods from manifesting.  Naturally he will send his underlings and allies (see lackeys) to dissuade our, what looks to be somewhat self-centered/"shadowy" heroes, and depending on his lackeys success, may become directly involved in preventing the PCs from acheiving their goal.

But what must also be considered is that the current leaders of the Druidic Order see Yreatius Asheai as a "fallen prophet" and have been trying to find and eliminate him for some time.  However, they still desire the lack of deities that Yreatius has created through creating the barrier.  I feel that this will offer an interesting conflict if the players, infact, attempt to gather the articats used to manipulate the barrier because the characters will possibly face an assault from both sides.  Will this reunite Yreatius with the Order? Will the Order use the PCs to aid in destroying Yreatius? If the Order does manipulate the PC's how far should they manipulate them and what does that say about the heads of the order themselves?  How soon should I allow the PC's to become aware of the manipulation if this is the scenerio that I take? Etc.

Any additional thoughts?

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I think there's a theme layer you can add here: that the gods are PART of the natural order and balance, adn that the world is suffering because of their exclusion. The druids are missing all this, and are blaming Yreatius  or the PCs or whatever. Yreatius on the other hand may or may not have realized this. If he has, then there obviously has to be some reason why he hasn't used the artifact to bring the gods back. If he hasn't, then he has to be convinced.

I think most of those questions you asked though need to be answered based on what you know about your players and what all of you would enjoy. However, just for plot satisfaction, there isn't much reason for Yreatius  to have parted from the order if he's just going to go back unless you coordinate it exceptionally well, building up by confronting them separately, and then when the PCs are strong enough to face either down, having them team up.

[Spriggan]

Hey Nicadymus, glad you survived.  Have you read the new D20 Dragonlance book?  It deals with a lot of the questions you've got like there being no gods (during 2 different time periods) or Paldins.  What they do is have a set of perstege classes (knights of Solomina) that make up the Paladin then take it farther.  Or you can change the Ranger around a bit to make it a nature paladin.

If you do write up the setting (which I hope you do because I know how fun your stuff is) if you can't sell it to a publisher you can allwayse sell it in PDF form on www.rpgnow.com.

[Spriggan]

Oh just had another idea for the Paladin.  Normaly they're hybrid clerics, so why not makethem a hybrid druid.  So what's the druids cool power?  Shape Shifting.  So why not make your Paladins into a Lycantrop type character?  Not that they're actualy werewolfs but they can shapchance into a hybrid animal (ie half human half animal) based off their totem animal.  You should make their hybrid form more powerful as their level goes up so that the human form dosen't become better.

[Nicadymus]

Ok.  SE... The reason why Yreatius hasn't returned to the Druidic Order is because he is a Blighter, the antithesis of Druids in many respects.  The best way to understand what this means is to look to the Masters of the Wild book for 3.0, if you don't have access to it I will try to sum up the problem.  Yreatius hasn't brought the gods back because he no longer understands the balance of Nature.  His views are warped because of the fact that Nature nearly made him a diety, the very thing that he was trying to eliminate, as Nature attempted to restore the balance.  When he realized what was happening he exiled himself in attempt to prevent his assention to godhood, for without "followers" he can't achieve that status.  One thing that has perplexed him, and has been a motivation for him to prevent the return of the gods, can be seen in his deforestation (blighter class feature).  In order to have any of his Blighter Spell Powers Yreatius, himself, must travel to lush green lands and "deforest" them as per the class feature, but despite the destruction he creates, the plants always find a way to grow back...in time.  And, given the fact that he has the Druid class feature of Timeless Body, he has been around long enough to see the lands recover. So he realizes that no matter what he does Nature will inevitably restore the balance, and allow the gods to be recovered.  This realization has slighted him and driven him, at least a little, mad.  He believes that if he doesn't stay vigilent in his zealot belief that this world must not have a diety in order to bring about the completeness of nature, he looses the final aspect of himself. And Nature will have been victorious.  But if he can continue to disrupt the balance he still has a reason to exist and nature does not have complete control over his destiny, the very thing which a Blighter attempts to fight against despite their realization of the same.

I don't know if this makes any sense or not, but, then again, how do you make sense of the thoughts of someone who is insane?  Any further thoughts on this?

Spriggan... I have only glanced at the Dragonlance campaign setting, unfortunately.  But I am also trying to take only what I need in order to create the realm of Noldaerthroll.  The thought of altering the Ranger class to create a Druidic/Nature paladin did cross my mind, but I was having trouble deciding how to alter the classes to make them work.  If you could offer me some more input on the whole idea you had with the wild shape modification I would appreciate it...because that opens up the idea of how my new races came to be...eventually the druidic paladins psuedo-wild shape becomes permanent, and the new races (Fellinoin, Kaynian, and Velacirius) were formed when groups of these paladins left after the end of the wars that eliminated the clerics and paladins of the gods.  Let me know if that idea will work, and what else you were thinking regarding the modifications to the paladin class. Any help would be greatly appreciated.