Angst & Frustrations Galore

[Archon]

MoD, I was not labelling anyone. I was trying to be sincere and clear that I was not referring to the people of the board. It is apparently very hard to avoid being disrespectful. My point here was that many people who talk down to me have no right to do so. I do not know why you take exception to this, this was not meant to be an insult to anyone on the board. It was meant to say that people do not generally have the right to talk down to me, and that many who do talk down to me are wrong in doing so. As for my own medicine, I don't know what you mean, unless you think I am talking down to someone. I do not see that I have done so.
MoD, understand that I am being completely open and sincere when I ask you what you think I labeled people in this post. I don't understand, and I really do want you to explain it to me.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

People tell me I overreact all the time, and they also tell me that I don't know when to let go.

You certainly are doing that. What's immature is insisting upon taking insult when someone in a calm voice specifically tells you they did not mean what you took from their comments. No one is talking down to you. You're talking with 30 year olds who claim to have more experience for you. Shoudl we not make that claim? it's absurd to expect them not to claim more perspective. If that bothers you, And it's so difficult to argue with us and that means we should pity you, you're in the VERY wrong place. No one here has said that you should stop. I'm sorry it's difficult, but that's sort of the danger you run when you have an unpopular point of view. If you can't handle it without getting upset, you need to stop making comments, because it's unreasonable to expect sympathy based on that complaint.

[Archon]

SE, I did not ask for sympathy. I do not like having sympathy, and I certainly do not like being pitied. I want you to consider that a possible reason for some of my difficulties in the argument. I do not deny that you have more experience. I do deny that you are superior to me, and that your opinions should be held in higher regard than mine. And that I am willing to argue to the death. I am pretty familiar with the risks of having an unpopular opinion, as it is very very uncommon for me to have a popular point of view. I probably put that comment in my previous post just to point it out for my own satisfaction. I don't really expect you to act differently because of it, I just wanted to tell you all that.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

then you should probably stop taking offense. Because I haven't seen any comments that say they're better than you. They've said your comments are completely unconvincing, they've said that they don't find your argumentation valid, but you obviously feel that way about us as well, so how is that talking down to you?

[Archon]

I don't want to get into a whole list of he said this but she said that and on and on. I don't think it would be productive. From the general ideas of your posts though, you have labeled me as immature, naive, and ignorant. You consider your opinions to be naturally more valid than mine is. Am I wrong? You give my ideas less consideration than those of the other people on the board, because you "know" me to be immature, naive, and ignorant. And you say these things because I am a teen. By the same logic as this, I could condone racism, because the average African American has a lesser IQ than the average white person. You could argue that yours has a basis in fact, but you could argue the same about mine.

[Mistress of Darkness]

Archon, I apologize. I misunderstood your antecedent for "they."

[Archon]

Not a big deal MoD. I was just confused by that one, I agree that I would have been out of line at that point, and it was an easy mistake to make. So not a big deal.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

archon, I'm not going to continue this line of conversation. If I SAY I don't look down on you, and you still want to read condescension into my comments, I can't change that you have a victim complex, but the fact that you insists on it shows that it's not worth continuing this discussion

[MsFish]

MsFish, if you go by that philosophy, of nothing being certain, then you can get to the point where you can argue anything. There are some things that are black and white. Up, no matter the scientific explanation, is up. I am typing to you right now, nobody can convince me otherwise. 1+1=2. There are some definites.

Archon!  Why do you always misinterpret me?  ARG.

Of course there are definites.  I was pointing out the fallacy in Gorgon's argument that you shouldn't say anything is true that can't be proven.  I was saying, you can never really be sure whether something is proven or disproven, so it's not always good measure for what is true and untrue.  (Now, there are obviously some exceptions to that.  But I'm talking about larger principles here, not simple facts.)

So when you were arguing with me you were actually agreeing with what I meant by what I said.  Okay?

[Archon]

MsFish, I find this to be an extremely funny situation. It doesn't seem like it should make sense, but it does. Yes I see what you are saying now.

[Master Xaio]

Um... first of all, I'd just like to say that I'm staying totally out of the debates (Which I've only half read) over moral issues, and arguing over who insulted who how.  

comes in, no?  You weren't talking about her staying at your house, where you?  If you were, it would probably be more acceptable for her parents to have her stay at an old friend's house under the supervision of an adult they know and trust.

Um, yeah, we were thinking of her staying at my place.  I don't know your culture, but certainly her parents are ok with that.  They trust us.  She's stayed with ppl in this kind of situation before.  So... that particular line was totally out of the blue...

Outcast--When I was in high school, I was dating this guy and his parents thought we were spending too much time together, so they wouldn't let him talk to me on random occasions.  It sucked.  I thought I was going to die.  I didn't die, of course, but I felt that way all the same.  So, I'm sorry you're going through this.  Right or wrong or appropriate or innappropriate, it still sucks.

Thank you Ms. Fish    Its actually funny, because her parents really like me, and encourage the relationship.  So... no idea what is wrong with them.

just out of curiousty (becsaue I've never heard of this before and I'm not trying to be rude here), how are you noy allergic to yourself, her, your parents, JP and others?

No, I don't mind you asking.  Trust me, I've had it before    Um, as far as we can see, I'm not allergic to humans.  But... its a little hard to know.  <vague medical boring explanation, all casual readers prob wanna tune out>  We don't really know what part of the red meat I'm allergic to.  The doctors think its probably an ameno-acid - which one they don't know, they don't even know if they're right.  They're not willing to do the test (1 as to 2 million scratch test I think its called) to find out; its "tiger country".  So... basically, we can't be 100% sure, but I don't seem to be allergic to my own kind.  Thank the gods.

And despite when you start dating in Austrailia (by the way, I know people that have been 'dating' since they were ten or eleven years old.  So, yeah, while a lot of people wait until they are older, it has become pretty common for people to date early), I stand by that anything physical (i.e. sexual) is innappropriate.  By that statement I didn't mean that your dating was innappropriate.  And I think you might have thought I meant that.

We never said we were going to do anything sexual.  If you want to get graphic, I suppose it may go as far as kidding.   But damn, she is only 14.  We may start dating early, but...

All for a little face time with a boy that she probably isn't even thinking about marrying at the time and can talk to on a regular basis.

Um... I once again ask you, do you have a girlfriend?
Secondly, have you ever conducted a relationship long distance?  In fact, I ask the second of all of you.   I think it might put a bit of perspective on your replies.  

-I don't think the root cause behind her parent's behavior is meanness or even dishonesty.  It's just plain laziness.  They don't want to put themselves out as much as taking her back to see him would require.

-And I'm sure that they don't see it as important enough to make the effort because they have forgotten how immediate and important such things felt when they were 14.  Telling Xiao that ten years from now this situation will seem wholly insignificant to him has no impact whatsoever on how he feels today.

Once again, I would like to say thank you.  Thank you for the last, and I'm glad you understand the first.  Obviously you haven't got all the information, and experiences, and knowledge of the ppl involved.  But the sense everyone has been getting, is that her parents (largely her mother) are/is lazy.  

To put it simply, her mother is an airhead.  Not very intelligent.  She's not exactly the best candidate for making mature, well-thought out decisions.  She's impulsive, and a bit lazy.  

What else was asked/said...

- No, our parents aren't talking atm.  Her mother kept on putting off calling for various reasons, and sidestepping, saying that "she'll get around to it".

- Ah, Gorgon.  The perspective thing.  I admit I kinda took that the wrong way, I didn't see it as you just giving perspective, I took a bit of offence at that.  Sorry about the misunderstanding.

- For the most part, yeah, we have been civil.  We've certainly tried, you can't say that we didn't.  Occaisionally its slipped, its not exactly easy when they keep giving us false hopes then often letting us down only days before.

- No, my parents aren't willing to drive there to pick her up.  And there isn't a need to really- cause HER PARENTS HAVE TO COME PAST HER.  Its just that they can't decide on a date, they barely live more than one day in advance, so....

Ok, I think thats most of it.  As I said, I've probably missed some points... but if you want me to answer any questions etc. repost it.

[Spriggan]

No, I don't mind you asking.  Trust me, I've had it before    Um, as far as we can see, I'm not allergic to humans.  But... its a little hard to know.  <vague medical boring explanation, all casual readers prob wanna tune out>  We don't really know what part of the red meat I'm allergic to.  The doctors think its probably an ameno-acid - which one they don't know, they don't even know if they're right.  They're not willing to do the test (1 as to 2 million scratch test I think its called) to find out; its "tiger country".  So... basically, we can't be 100% sure, but I don't seem to be allergic to my own kind.  Thank the gods

Humm..That's realy intresting.  I'm not allergic to anything so I have no idea what it's like, though I could imagine how much my life would suck if I was allergic to Mountain Dew.  Considering I'd still drink it everyday.

[GorgonlaVacaTremendo]

And yes, MsFish (I think it was), you can't prove anything.  I am quite aware of this.  And yes, there are areas of black and white.  Morals are not one of them.

Take an example - I assume most of you think stealing is wrong.  However, most of you were told in your childhood the story of Robin Hood.  He stole from the rich and gave to the poor.  If your morals were rock-solid and undenyable, he would be a villain.  But just about all of you, if not all of you, we told Robin Hood was a Hero.  So, obviously your morals could be debated because of this.  I'm not saying that stealing is right or wrong - I'm just saying there are no moral certainties.  

We are the only animals, as far as we can tell, that even invented morals for themselves.  The rest of the animal kingdom doesn't even appear to bother.  Because of our intelligence, we attempt to justify things.  That justification comes out as science, religion, morals, ect.  So one could argue that morals don't really exist - and they could make a very stable argument.  However, that doesn't change the fact that all of us have our morals and they are very real to us.  Which is why it is very offensive to me if anybody attacks the legitimacy of anybody else's morals.

And Archon - I don't concider myself debating against you, I would like to point this out right now.  Because I am not saying that I think the parents are right.  You are saying you think the kids are right (as far as I can tell).  I am just playing devil's advocate for the side that was under-represented.

Archon - yes, apparently it is very easy to offend.  You became offended by other members when they did not mean to offend you.  And, in the likes, they became offended by you.  It's a two-way street.  And as you kindly said, you will continue to be angry about it despite the fact that they did not mean to offend you or talk down to you.

You came across as pretty hypocritical to me in the last couple of posts.  Just letting you know that you may wish to think out situations that could come back with the roles switched on you in the future.

OutKast - no I do not have a girlfriend.  No, I have not have a long distance courting relationship.  So, technically you could make the argument that I don't know how it feels.  But I know people who have, I am very close to somebody seperated from her boyfriend right now for a pretty long period of time.  I know the effect it has, and I can probably imagine how it feels, although you are going to argue otherwise, I'm sure.

The point is, I know it's rough.  I never meant to offend you in any way (I can't tell if you are offended or not, but I will put that out as a disclaimer), nor was I saying that you were wrong.  I, again, was just trying to give an alternate perspective than the one shown.

I has some other stuff to say, but I have to go.  Chances are I wont remember them later.  I just thought I'd let everybody know.  Gooday.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Secondly, have you ever conducted a relationship long distance?  In fact, I ask the second of all of you.   I think it might put a bit of perspective on your replies.

at least 3 possibly more, cause there are more than I want to count right now.

and one of them is now my wife. Who I dated for two years in college, (she in maryland and me in North Carolina)

[stacer]

Most of my first boyfriend-girlfriend relationship was long distance. He left for college and I was still in high school several hours away. At least he was from my hometown, so every time he came home for the weekend, we were able to go out, but it was very hard, when the year before I had been used to seeing him every day, having study hall with him, eating lunch with him, etc.

I understand your frustration, especially with parents who live by caprice. Mine, especially my stepmom, were the same way. Whatever she said was right, whether she gave a reason or not. If, halfway through the track season, she suddenly decided that she didn't want me doing track anymore and ordered me not to go, I had to obey her without question, just because she said so.

That said--and I know this isn't much comfort--everything will work out over time. "Patience is a virtue" and all that. I am the least patient person I know (which must be why I am always presented with situations I have to have patience with, I suppose), so I feel your pain. If nothing else, in a few years you won't be living at home!