Author Topic: WoK 30 magic systems (spoilers)  (Read 3347 times)

quixote

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WoK 30 magic systems (spoilers)
« on: September 14, 2010, 05:55:55 AM »
Hey im new here and although Ive found a lot on cosmere theories, I havent really seen much on theories regarding roshars particular magic system(s), so heres what I think is going on and Im wondering what you guys think:

1: I cant remember where i read this, but I remember seeing somewhere that Brandon said that the stormlight archive was going to have at least 30 magic systems

the first 10 I think should be pretty obvious, but just to give my reasoning:
2: Looking at what kaladin can do, Im pretty sure that most people will agree that the magic system he uses is somehow related to the first of the 10 essences, due to his protecting/leading personality traits, the fact that he needs to "inhale" stormlight to access his powers, and that his wind related powers are in line with the zephyr essence.
3: keeping in mind that Kaladin had to form some sort of bond/agreement/relationship something with a spren to gain these abilities, Im pretty sure shallan's dealings with the symbol-headed creatures, which are also supposedly spren, means that she is also forming abilities based on one of the ten essences, in this case the 6th.
4: this is also supported by the fact that she appears to be learning natural abilities that use stormlight (soulcasting without a fabrial), the fact that the first thing she soulcasts is blood, the 6th essence, the fact that she first sees these spren through creative means (aka her drawings) which is the first personality trait, and lastly, to strengthen this bond with the spren, she has to be honest by telling them a strong truth: that she killed her father, which is the second personality trait. This process is also very similar to how Kaladin strengthened his bond with syl, and thus made it easier for him to use stormlight, by saying something that demonstrated the 2nd personality trait: to protect people.
5: Therefore, it appears that strongly displaying one of the 10 personality trait combinations listed in the ars acanum is at least one of the prerequisites for attracting a corresponding spren, after which one must demonstrate/say the different ideals upheld by each of the 10 orders of radiants (keep in mind that supposedly the 1st ideal is the same for all 10 orders while the 0ther 3 are different depending on the order). Doing this then gives the person one of 10 abilities that uses stormlight. Im not sure if all these abilities are considered variations of surgebinding, or just the first essence, but if I had to guess I would say they are, and that windrunning is just an essence-specific subset of abilities.
6: This is less provable at the moment, but if i had to guess, I think Jasnah either has abilities related to the 6th essence, due to what appears to be similar abilities to shallan, or the 2nd, due to her personality and that fact that she is always using smokestone.

As for the next 10:
7: In the ars arcanum, the narrator mentions that voidbinding also should have a corresponding set of abilities for each of the ten essences. This seems to make pretty good sense considering the similarity in terminology between surgebinding and voidbinding.
8: To support this, also remember the gemstone with black light that Gavilar had when he died. It seems highly probable that if all 10 of the surgebinding magic systems use stormight from gems, then i would assume that voidbinding would use this "voidlight."
9: This is also likely considering that the parshendi are thought to be descendants of the original voidbinders, and gavilar had this stone during a time when he was interacting with the parshendi a lot.

Then for the last 10:
10: This is only mentioned briefly, but the narrator in the ars arcanum states that he thinks there is also another set of abilities, possibly the old magic or maybe something even more esoteric, that are also linked to the 10 essences.
11: Although there is no clue as what kind of "light" or energy these abilities may draw from, I am fairly certain there is a 3rd power source.
12: This is because is appears that roshar, at least at one point in time, had 3 shards, as stated in one of the epigraphs where they say something along the lines of "where once 3 0f 16 once reigned, only odium rules now" (sorry, I dont have the book on me and dont know the exact wording). This is also supported by the fact that in Dalinar's last vision, the "almighty" obviously talks about odium, but he also mentions a, presumably, 3rd shard: cultivation.
13: Lastly, keep in mind that, just as in mistborn when Leras died, or in elantris with the death of Skai and Aona, the magical system a shard fuels can still be used if there is no living conciousness attached to it; so even if cultivation and the almighty have both been killed by odium, each of there shards still be the source of a type of light: the almighty/stormfather, being the source of highstorms, also must obviously produce stormlight, odium would presumably be the source of "voidlight," and cultivation could maybe be the source of this last esoteric set of 10 abilities.

and there you have it: 30 magic systems! what do you think??

Kykeon

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Re: WoK 30 magic systems (spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2010, 07:41:44 AM »
Aren't the ancestors of the Parshemen, and by extension the Parshendi called voidbringers?
Natural Soulcasting sounds very much like the agreement between humans and the *fins in WoT IMHO.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 12:29:11 PM by Kykeon »

Fireborn

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Re: WoK 30 magic systems (spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2010, 08:06:33 AM »
This is good.  This is definitely the kind of thing that could fit under Brandon's "it depends on how you count them" statement.

There are a few problems though.  I'm thinking that the last 10, the ones you've attributed to Cultivation are likely not particularly related.  Like the Old Magic, or the magic that generates spren, these would tie into there too.  It's not just magic that is used by people that fit under the magic systems banner.

EDIT: Kykeon, well, this wouldn't the first thing to be misnamed after centuries.  Jezrien as Jezerezeh, anyone?
When to live is to die, and to die is to live, does either really matter?

Ari54

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Re: WoK 30 magic systems (spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2010, 09:39:37 AM »
I wouldn't rule out Cultivation or Odium having some stake in some of the abilities we've already seen, like when we found out that Feruchemy was balanced between Preservation and Ruin. It's possible that a lot of the magic systems involve interactions between the three powers, and aren't just directly the result of one of the shards present on Roshar.

Wolpertinger

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Re: WoK 30 magic systems (spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2010, 09:40:54 AM »
You forgot about Fabrials and Shardblades - Fabrials in and of themselves could be one or many, and Shardblades/Plate could be considered fabrials or something else.. or more.

Here's another possibility - if there are plane-hoppers around, it's also technically possible that some of their magic might show up, as well, adding to that count. It could be a magic we've already seen in previous series, or some hinting at a series to come, perhaps. Not all magic is as.. location-centric as the Aons
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 09:43:04 AM by Wolpertinger »

quixote

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Re: WoK 30 magic systems (spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2010, 04:34:24 PM »
kykeon- you are right that the parshendi are supposedly descended from something called voidbringers, but the ars arcanum does also mention a type of magic called voidbinding too.

fireborn- you are right that I really have no idea who fuels this last set of 10 abilities or even if they are used by humans (maybe fabrials fit into here soehow too), however at the same the ars arcanum does say that it does tie into the whole 10 essence thing somehow, so im pretty sure that there are 10 different systems that fit into this "esoteric" category. maybe they work as wolpertinger said and maybe use both storm and "void" light?

Salkara

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Re: WoK 30 magic systems (spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2010, 04:38:43 PM »
Fairly in line with what I'd imagined while reading the Ars Arcanum. 10 Essences and 3 Shards. From the Almighty, we have 10 Orders of surgebinders, from Odium there would be 10 Orders of voidbinders, and from Cultivation there would be 10 Orders of Old Magics-binders (or perhaps Old-binders).

ErikHolmes

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Re: WoK 30 magic systems (spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2010, 05:02:54 PM »
I'm just waiting for Rainbow to reply to this thread and break it down or us...
Who the hell is interrupting my Kung Fu!

guy

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Re: WoK 30 magic systems (spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2010, 06:03:37 PM »
I really do like the idea that there are three shards on roshar rather than just two

Ari54

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Re: WoK 30 magic systems (spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2010, 01:59:27 AM »
Fairly in line with what I'd imagined while reading the Ars Arcanum. 10 Essences and 3 Shards. From the Almighty, we have 10 Orders of surgebinders, from Odium there would be 10 Orders of voidbinders, and from Cultivation there would be 10 Orders of Old Magics-binders (or perhaps Old-binders).

I really think that's oversimplifying things. If it was that cut and dried, Brandon wouldn't have said that it depends how you count the systems.

jacobfake

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Re: WoK 30 magic systems (spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2010, 04:45:58 AM »
one thing I was thinking is maybe Dustbringers are to Voidbringers as Windrunners are to Knights Radiant, that would give us one of their orders.

Kykeon

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Re: WoK 30 magic systems (spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2010, 08:18:22 AM »
quixote--
Maybe it is like in "The keys to the kingdom": There is the Nothing a type of antimaterial emptyness or void, there are the Nithlings, which are made from Nothing and who often aim to destroy and dissolve regular beings and there are the House Sorcerers who use the Nothing to perform various magical feats.
See what I'm trying to say?