Author Topic: WOT Help  (Read 144844 times)

Shadowkiller

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2008, 12:14:09 AM »
My comparisons are purely broken down bare as you say.   The Sisters of Light vs Aes Sedai for instance.   The one ages slowly due to an effect on the building where they live, the other ages slowly due to the connection with magic.   The one only has access to one half of the power they are capable of tapping into(additive and subtractive), the other has full access to the power they are tapping into(Saidar).   In one, Men and Women are both capable of accessing both sides of the same power, the other, Men and Women each access different sides of the same power.   You break it down and the details are different, how they are used are different, but in the basic bare bones of the story, they occupy the same place.   One could argue that the Confessors occupy the same political position as the White Tower so therefore the Confessors are more like Aes Sedai.   Write the basics of the story and they are similar, write details and they diverge.

Is there a group of female magic users? Yes. Who are they? Sisters of Light vs Aes Sedai. Details? Too many to list.
Is there a prophetical sword? Yes. What is it called? Sword of Truth vs Callendor. Details? Too many to list.
Was there an age of enlightenment? Yes. How long ago? 3000 years. How did it end? Cataclysmic war event. Details? Too many to list.
Is there a group of male magic users? No. How long since last normal group of male magic users? 300o years. Details on why they are no longer? Too many to list.
Is there a group that hunts down magic users? Yes. What are they called. Blood of the Fold vs Children of Light. Details? Too many to list.

Its the details that are different between the two stories, but the basics are relatively the same.   The further along in the story you get, the less alike the stories are.   That's why I said:
It looks like the two of them started off with the same world and took the story in two different directions.

GreenMonsta

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2008, 01:32:53 AM »
Ok your right. Im not saying it in defeat, only because we always agreed. I questioned the Sot=Callendor thing and brought the details into it while I willingly left the details out of every other comparison.
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JoeC

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2008, 01:18:41 AM »
Just to let you guys know, I'm about halfway done with Eye of the World. It has recently picked up my interest after being frustratingly slow most of the book. Yet, even when it was slow, I was still thinking about it all the time. Jordan does do a good job creating realistic worlds. I appreciate all your responses, even if some of them have contained mild spoilers (grrr). I look forward to being involved with the WOT discussions here!!!

maxonennis

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2008, 02:35:51 AM »
Just to let you guys know, I'm about halfway done with Eye of the World. It has recently picked up my interest after being frustratingly slow most of the book. Yet, even when it was slow, I was still thinking about it all the time. Jordan does do a good job creating realistic worlds. I appreciate all your responses, even if some of them have contained mild spoilers (grrr). I look forward to being involved with the WOT discussions here!!!

What's odd is I keep on hearing people say that the first few books are slow, I read the first six or so in high school and never thought them slow. Now once you get to about book eight and nine, they do slow down--book ten was just painful--but it really picks up in book eleven.
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2008, 07:35:40 AM »
The first book is slow largely because of all the traveling. Once they figure out the Traveling weave, that means a lot more can get done in subsequent books because it doesn't take forever to get anywhere.
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Shadowkiller

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2008, 07:58:08 AM »
Yeah I never saw the first book as slow.   They are traveling but they are pretty much always in a rush running from someone to somewhere.

Wielder

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2008, 06:04:45 PM »
The first book is slow largely because of all the traveling. Once they figure out the Traveling weave, that means a lot more can get done in subsequent books because it doesn't take forever to get anywhere.

I just have to say, every time I read the prologue of EOTW, I like it better and better.  So much foreshadowing in that chapter alone. 

After reading quite a bit of the series (and knowing about the rest), this section is just plain amazing. 
Quote
One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars.
-Legacy of Kain

cseresz

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2008, 07:30:34 PM »
  There are so many parallels between the two stories that there is no way they didn't talk at some point. 

Hmm.

The Eye of the World (15 January 1990)
The Great Hunt (15 November 1990)
The Dragon Reborn (15 October 1991)
The Shadow Rising (15 September 1992)
The Fires of Heaven (15 October 1993)
Lord of Chaos (15 October 1994)

vs.

Wizard's First Rule (15 August 1994)


There are strong grounds for suspecting that Goodkind has committed some crime (plagiarism).


happyman

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2008, 08:02:02 PM »
  There are so many parallels between the two stories that there is no way they didn't talk at some point. 

Hmm.

The Eye of the World (15 January 1990)
The Great Hunt (15 November 1990)
The Dragon Reborn (15 October 1991)
The Shadow Rising (15 September 1992)
The Fires of Heaven (15 October 1993)
Lord of Chaos (15 October 1994)

vs.

Wizard's First Rule (15 August 1994)


There are strong grounds for suspecting that Goodkind has committed some crime (plagiarism).



You can't plagiarize ideas.  And borrowing ideas isn't immoral, either.
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spejoku

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2008, 08:08:19 PM »
I'm reading the series for the first time as well, and I'm up to Path of Daggers.  personally, I really like how he can make characters so convincing.  Nynaeve, for example, is one of my favorites, mainly because she freaks out so much :D   I don't really like Rand all that much because he just seems a little too "Rawr, I can't trust anyone to do anything important and I can't send the people I do trust to do anything important because I can't risk them and Lews Therin tells me to kill them but he's crazy and I don't want to sleep"

At least Nynaeve will make things explode rather than bottle them up like that.
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Shadowkiller

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2008, 08:58:12 PM »

You can't plagiarize ideas.  And borrowing ideas isn't immoral, either.
Exactly.   But one could also say that Goodkind just took longer to get his story in order.   With epics like this, you don't just write on the fly.   You build the world, you build the history, you build an outline, and then you carefully tread forward.   I've heard Jordan originally expected to do it in three books, then in six.   RJ and TG may have had an agreement or something where TG waits till RJ finished before starting.   If that were the case, TG may have waited till it became obvious RJ wasn't going to finish any time soon.   Who really knows and who is really going to admit it.

Wielder

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2008, 10:36:31 PM »
I'm reading the series for the first time as well, and I'm up to Path of Daggers.  personally, I really like how he can make characters so convincing.  Nynaeve, for example, is one of my favorites, mainly because she freaks out so much :D   I don't really like Rand all that much because he just seems a little too "Rawr, I can't trust anyone to do anything important and I can't send the people I do trust to do anything important because I can't risk them and Lews Therin tells me to kill them but he's crazy and I don't want to sleep"

At least Nynaeve will make things explode rather than bottle them up like that.

SPOILER WARNING--THROUGH THE CROSSROADS OF TWILIGHT

Yeah, I really like Nynaeve as well.  And as for Rand, I can agree as well.  I think it's in character, though.  My favorite character is still Mat.  The chapters in The Dragon Reborn with Mat + Thom are awesome.  Also, the pieces of the Karaethon Cycle that refer to Mat are so freaking awesome.

Quote
Fortune rides like the sun on high
with the fox that makes the ravens fly.
Luck his soul, the lightning his eye,
He snatches the moons from out of the sky.

Pure epic.
Quote
One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate...and thus defy the tyrannous stars.
-Legacy of Kain

maxonennis

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2008, 11:33:55 PM »

You can't plagiarize ideas.  And borrowing ideas isn't immoral, either.
Exactly.   But one could also say that Goodkind just took longer to get his story in order.   With epics like this, you don't just write on the fly.   You build the world, you build the history, you build an outline, and then you carefully tread forward.   I've heard Jordan originally expected to do it in three books, then in six.   RJ and TG may have had an agreement or something where TG waits till RJ finished before starting.   If that were the case, TG may have waited till it became obvious RJ wasn't going to finish any time soon.   Who really knows and who is really going to admit it.

Not when Jordan started writing tEotW back in 1984. In fact TOR says that Jordan was five years late on getting them the book. He'd started writing the book, but then stopped to do the world building so the books would be concise story. He's said it took him an entire year to do world building, and four more years to make the first novel because he wanted the pace to be even through out.
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cseresz

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #58 on: December 02, 2008, 09:09:01 PM »

You can't plagiarize ideas.  And borrowing ideas isn't immoral, either.
Exactly.   But one could also say that Goodkind just took longer to get his story in order.   With epics like this, you don't just write on the fly.   You build the world, you build the history, you build an outline, and then you carefully tread forward.   I've heard Jordan originally expected to do it in three books, then in six.   RJ and TG may have had an agreement or something where TG waits till RJ finished before starting.   If that were the case, TG may have waited till it became obvious RJ wasn't going to finish any time soon.   Who really knows and who is really going to admit it.

terry goodkind: I wasn't ready to start writing until I was 45. When I wrote “Wizard's First Rule”, I was ready.  (born 1948)

I've heard Jordan ... "In the beginning, I truly thought it was going to be four or five books,"; "When I finished 'The Eye of the World,' I thought I had a good chance of doing it in six."
 


RJ and TG may have had an agreement You  have a wonderful imagination :)

JoeC

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2008, 11:22:11 PM »
Update for you guys: I finished Eye of the World and I will be starting The Great Hunt tonight. I wasn't over the hill with EOtW but I like it enough to want to follow the story. It really picked up at the end and I was very happy with how it ended. My criticisms are that I still don't fully understand the system of magic and and yes, mookla, there is way too much traveling. Also, the characters took a long time to become likeable, with the exception of Mat, Lan, and Moraine. I didn't start liking Rand until about the middle of the book. I feel the book could have used more action, (btw..when there was action, it was really good)
My compliments are that I LOVE the world RJ made. Very thorough and well described, I feel like it could be a real world. I like how the heroes seem to have all the cards stacked against them and are up against some very tough enemies (when Aginor came at the end and busted them all up, I was like "Holy crap!!") I'm enthralled with the whole Legend of the Dragon Reborn stuff. I like all of the characters now and I'm enjoying their progressions. They've all changed a lot since the beginning of the book (except Lan and Moraine of course) I thought learning of Lan's history was awesome because he wasn't just another bodyguard. I would like to know more about Moraine and her history though. Hopefully, they explain the magic system and the legends more thoroughly in the next book. The index at the back of EOtW was helpful.
  Thanks for your input guys!!