One reason TO hate Italy.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I'll classify myself as an idealistic pessimist who wishes he could be an optimist.

I think it ridiculous to believe that Bush is something like a Hitler. I don't believe he's trying to take over the world and run everything.

But I also don't believe that this is going to kick off a series of events that frees a series of nations either.

Just my two bits. Only watching will show which of us is right on this one.

[Entsuropi]

On another topic...

today china's ruling party voted overwhelmingly to use military force if Taiwan fails to roll over and renounce its independance. Watch Europe fail to say anything.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

no, they authorized the potential use of force if Taiwan ever officially declares it's independence. There is a vast difference there. it means they have not authorized force if Taiwan does nothing.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

like it has done for 50 years...

[Oseleon]

http://www.defenddemocracy.org/in_the_media/in_the_media_show.htm?doc_id=266905&attrib_id=7378

it is hard not to be an optomist

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Wow. That's very impressive.

I haven't been paying too much attention to the news--I heard ahead of time that rally was planned, but didn't catch the result of it.

Very cool.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Yeah, I'll officially look at that as a good thing. Hopefully it will come to real change. I guess all eyes are on it to see.

[House of Mustard]

I wonder why the mainstream media failed to catch that...

[Skar]

?  It was well covered on the FOX web page.

[House of Mustard]

Ah...  see, I only read CNN and MSNBC.  Maybe it was there, but it wasn't a headline.

[Oseleon]

The really amazing thing is that Lebenon is a nation of  3,777,000.  And over 1,000,000 showed up
That is over 1/4 of the nation's population showing up at a freedom rally
That is an amazing sign

To give a comparrison
That would be the equivelant of a rally in the USA with 120,000,000 to 150,000,000 people showing up
Can you ever think of a time where 150 Million Americans felt strongly enough about an issue to show up at a protest/rally?


Oh and I am sure that some people are thinking about that pro-Syria rally in Lebanon last week.  
Here is a fun fact
in that pro-Syrian Rally was 1/3 of the work force of........


Syria!!!

Thats right.  The Syrian Government and pro Government organisations bussed their own people into Lebanon to stage an anti-freedom rally
That seems an awfully desperate measure,  I think we know why now.  

Syria has an American Military, that has demonstrated that it will not be halted by beurocratic smokescreens in the UN, sitting at it's back door.  It has 1/4 of the population of Lebanon VOCALY demonstrating against them on the other side.  And it has it's own opressed people inside it's own boarders looking to the government to see if it is as strong as they thought.  If it's not, maybe the people of Syria are thinking that, Syrians can have elections and freedom too.  
Afghanastan gets Democracy
That is just a single point of light
Iraq gets Democracy DESPITE the efforts of thugs and murders
That draws a line of light between 2 points across the Middle East
Now if Lebanon gets freedom... That gives a 3rd point... enough for a shape, the shape is the new wave of freedom across the middle east.  
Democracy will bring prosperity
Prosperity will make the people happy
happy, prosperous people dont blow themselves up in suicide bombings.  

Much of the Anti-American/Anti-Isriel sentiment in the region is a political tool of the corrupt regiems to focus the misery of the people away from the cause of that misery.  
It allows the rulers to opress and steal from thier own people and say, "You suffer not because of me, but because of Isriel and America"

It is the toung of Sauroman, in the mouth of the Prince, King, Caliph and Dictator in the region

[Peter Ahlstrom]

by the way, I think China should shut up and let Taiwan do whatever they feel like...of course, if the Nationalists had just declared Taiwan an independent country from the start instead of insisting they were the legitimate government of China for decades they wouldn't be in this mess now...

[Entsuropi]

No, they would have been in the mess that Tibet is in. Lets not forget that the chinese government is not exactly 'nice'.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

yeah, I think if They had announced they were independent they would have had more pressure.

Besides, last I heard polls indicate that Taiwan citizens don't WANT to be independent. They want to be part of China, just not the communist governmnet of China.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

I heard that they're close to evenly divided on the issue, but I'm too lazy to look up numbers. At any rate there are a good number who want independence very strongly.

Of course, a lot of the ones who really hate communist China have moved to other places like the US or Australia...