Revenge of the Sith

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

no, no, he's frustrated at how slow it is too. That's what his lines say. To be fair, we can't just assume something because Anakin's got a worse actor (heaven knows Luke wasn't actetd that well either).

This is how Anakin brought balance to the force, imo. He made the JEdi realize that cutting off love and family was not a good thing. That to be whole and balanced, love and family needed to be included.

[Entsuropi]

Well I suspect that anakin didn't bring balance - Luke did. Luke started the NJO, which was a jedi order but without the emotional cutoff.

Or maybe anakin brought balance by bringing the Sith back into alignment - maybe the force 'needs' there to be powerful sith balancing out the Jedi.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

what was that? I couldn't hear you. You started talking about the EU and I lost all interest.

but it doesn't matter. Anakin killed Palpatine, by committing himself to family, and anakin ended the hold of the order that enforced unrealistic rules on Jedi. I'm a gonna still have to go with Anakin on this one, EU or no EU. He's the one who fits the prophecy in the other ways. Plus Yoda and Obi-Wan never would have seen the error of their approach and trained Luke differently (they still had problems) if it hadn't been for what happened with Anakin.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Remember Anakin is the one the prophecy is about... thats explicit without Anakin Luke would have been killed and the Sith would have ruled.

But Anakin stirred inside Vaders chest, the Anakin from the first movie, who loves his mother, and was friendly and brave. Its important to realize that everything Vader does after Episode III is out of fear and anger, he is afraid of the Emperor, he is angry at what he's done. Killing Obi-Wan didnt accomplish what he thought it would, he was trying to kill off the light inside him because he didnt feel worthy. Thats what his conversation with Luke on Endor was all about. The hint that Anakin is inside of him is only apparent on rewatching Empire and through the knowlege of the first films. In Empire, Vader asks Luke to join him, and even though we know that the Emperor told him to do it we also know he means it. (At least I do) There is a certain desperation there, and a desire to be loved.
Luke Leia and Anakin all share the same brashness, cockiness and daring that much is evident. (theres just to much of his father in him Owen) But I also think that the turning point for Anakin was knowing that luke was fighting for his family, not a rebellion, not against the emperor, but for his soul, and his sister and their family.
Thats what did it, that and almost seeing luke Turn in front of him and making the choice that he never did.
So yeah, I have a little more respect for the Anakin of the Prequals now.

[Fellfrosch]

That's a great analysis. I would add that Luke's attempted suicide on Cloud City was the turning point for Vader. He had convinced himself that what he was doing was "right," and simply couldn't understand why Luke would rather kill himself than join him. That got him thinking, and it all cascaded down from there. Your idea of family works well with that, because Vader decides after the first time that he won't allow his son to die again (the way he "allowed" his mother to die by failing to be there for her). When Luke makes the same choice again--"I would rather die than join you"--Vader steps in and saves him.

[Skar]

I just rewatched Attack of the Clones and I must say that the last several posts have been very true and brought into sharp relief what is so good about the story arc as a whole, the movie itself was still atrocious.

Now I'm even more mad that Lucas managed to screw up such a basically good idea.  He had great ideas, his delivery just sucked.

Please let the third film be good!  Please!

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Plus to respond to Ent, ... just look at Luke in Ep IV,... telling Han how he could pilot the ship, whining to his uncle, whining to Ben. He doesn't even start to grow out of being whiney until Owen and Beru are murdered, but it takes him untill the middle of EP V to finish.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

I just want to say, Jeffe, that your previous post was extremely well articulated and insightful. I agree.

</ me too post>

Ethan, yeah, that's why I don't get upset at people not liking the movies. They've very poorly executed in many ways. However, once you see what's actually thematically operating in the narrative, the idea that he's betraying his own dream seems a bit... childish.

[mulchNator]

Childish?  Star Wars, Never!  Just look at Phantom Menace, I rest my case. . . . .

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

so, what, you're TRYING to start a fight?

[MoreDew]

no, he's not e.  Settle down, man.  Not everyone's trying to start a fight.  That's just the way Mulch is....

[House of Mustard]

If "the way Mulch is" translates into acting like a moron, I don't see why it ought to be tolerated.

[MoreDew]

again, with the hostility in the forum.  Tell me anyone, has there been anyone here who has not acted like a moron sometime in their life?  Or do we all need to be perfect like those who portray themselves to be in the TWG?

[Spriggan]

The reason why they're upset is someone they don't know and is new to the foum comes into a thread and starts Trolling, if it were someone who had been around for a while no one would care.  It's kinda of like if you and your buddies were at your house hanging out and someone who you didn't know burst through the door and started throwing insults around.  

[MoreDew]

but that's not the case though.  Mulch wasn't insulting or "trolling" anybody.  Mulch already knows a few of us here and he's fitting in.  People are getting way too sensitive around here.  Let's all take a deep breath... and start over.

Mulch, were you being insulting or "trolling" around?