Author Topic: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains  (Read 3804 times)


FirstMateJack

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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2006, 07:26:13 PM »
Good article! For some reason I always choose the paladin type of character (unless there is a dwarf, I choose the dwarf, Gimli is basically the greatest character ever, then Aragorn comes next).

Thus I am the paladin type that goes after a guy because he is 'just evil'.

Those are really good ideas and pointers about the evil villain.





Quote
9. Don't be afraid to take a minor villain and make him/her/it into a major villain. If an encounter becomes particularly lively, then why not build on that to keep things intersting.


I really like this idea.


« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 07:26:35 PM by FirstMateJack »
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Kirjath

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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2006, 08:10:10 PM »
Oooo.  Villains is something of a speciality for me.  I've always enjoyed creating or playing a bad guy.

My personal credo is "Make the bad guy think he's right."  I find nothing is more terrifying than a villain who thinks he is doing the right thing.  Think of Emperor Palpatine or Darth Vader.  They were just trying to establish galactic order and end this war that has been going on forever.

And bonus points if you make the players stop and have to think about what they are doing.

What if the 'bad guy' is a Necromancer who is using most of a villages population as human sacrifices?  No contest, kill him before he kills more innocents.  But what if this Necromancer were researching methods of overcoming a supernatural plague that could wipe out half the living population of the world?  Do you still defeat him?  Do you use the research that cost hundreds or thousands of lives?

The only exception to this rule is the insane villain.  (Think Kefka or Sephiroth.)  When faced with their own death or limitations they simply snap.  They don't have to think they are right.
And therefore, since I cannot prove a lover
To entertain these fair well-spoken days,
I am determined to prove a villain
And hate the idle pleasures of these days.

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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2006, 04:12:41 AM »
Generally, I'm not to fond of insane villains. I know people who are criminally insane (only a handful), which has made me realize how poorly done are most literary insane villains. Generally there is some logic to an criminally insane persons crimes and actions.

I do agree that it is nice to have figured out the rational behind the villains motives--just why the villains feels his/her/its actions are right. Its actually rather easy in this day and age when just about anything can be rationalized.
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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2006, 09:23:54 AM »
Quote
My personal credo is "Make the bad guy think he's right."  I find nothing is more terrifying than a villain who thinks he is doing the right thing.  Think of Emperor Palpatine or Darth Vader.  They were just trying to establish galactic order and end this war that has been going on forever.

I like to pick nits

Anakin, *convinced himself* that he was doing the right thing, but before he joined the baddies, he certainly knew that he was wrong. I don't think there is any evidence that Palpatine thought he was in the right. He was just out for revenge.

42

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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2006, 12:01:37 PM »
To be honest, a lot of criminals know that what they are doing is wrong, but they've convinced themselves that they are an exception, or that what they are doing really isn't so bad. Usually a bit of both.

I think Anakin had convinced himself that he was an exception.
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blcdrayco

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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2006, 01:24:43 PM »
I think a better example is Babylon 5- the shadows are actually trying to help lesser species evolve via natural selection, and the Vorlons want to make each individual earn it.
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Entsuropi

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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2006, 01:33:50 PM »
No, the Shadows are following nietchian ideals (chaos and war to create better species) while the Vorlons are, uhm, modernists - structure and order creates perfection.

I'd say a lot of criminals know what they do is wrong. They just don't care about the rights of others, so do it anyway. I certainly don't think that rapists have particularly strong cases to support themselves.
If you're ever in an argument and Entropy winds up looking staid and temperate in comparison, it might be time to cut your losses and start a new thread about something else :)

Fellfrosch

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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2006, 02:52:50 PM »
While I whole heartedly agree that petty criminals not only see their wrongdoing as evil, but revel in that evil, I must disagree that a true "villain" could gather as much power as makes a gaming session interesting without having to justify himself to the population in general.

Anakin and Palpatine justified their totalitarianism and power grab under the public pretence of bringing order to the chaos.  They went about it in methods that also fulfilled their own goals of revenge upon the Jedi, but their justification was altruistic.

Also, I'm talking generalizations for gaming villains.  If we were to remove all villains who were evil for the sake of being evil and only limited ourselves to those who are evil because of their perspective we would again be falling into predictable patterns and create boring stories.  I'm creating general rules with which a creative game master can forge an entertaining villain.  I still use the occasional wizard who is killing to steal souls that he might power a death machine and conquer the world.  Or the succubus who is a few family members short of collecting the full set for revenge.
And therefore, since I cannot prove a lover
To entertain these fair well-spoken days,
I am determined to prove a villain
And hate the idle pleasures of these days.

MsFish

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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2006, 05:27:33 PM »
This isn't convincing me to play in your campaign.   ;D
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FirstMateJack

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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2006, 06:18:15 PM »
Quote
No, the Shadows are following nietchian ideals (chaos and war to create better species) while the Vorlons are, uhm, modernists - structure and order creates perfection.


...that isn't a very convincing "uhm".



If I have learned anything from RPG's, it's that when two people argue, one of them  is evil, there is simply not enough time to get a third somewhat plot significant party involved in a battle, unless they choose a side. This being the RPG topic, all things RPG must hold true. Someone here is the bad guy.

....where's a narrator or gamemaster to tell you where who's side you are on when you need them.
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Entsuropi

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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2006, 09:38:44 PM »
So I leave in an 'uhm' to replicate the mental pause I had while typing. Sue me.
If you're ever in an argument and Entropy winds up looking staid and temperate in comparison, it might be time to cut your losses and start a new thread about something else :)

Fellfrosch

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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2006, 08:59:42 AM »
I am the moderator. After all, I am a god.

I will tell you who is evil once your disagreement ceases to amuse me.

FirstMateJack

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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2006, 02:52:10 PM »
Yeah, but god's of war are generally evil. Unless they are also a woman. I am pretty sure you are not a woman.

And I dueled you, I beat you up, you don't make a very good god of war.
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Re: Nerdery 36: Good Evil Villains
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2006, 03:03:36 PM »
1) my being evil has very little bearing on whether I'm the moderator

2) I wonder what you base that "god of war is generally evil" thing on. No god of war I'm familiar with is evil. Or, at least, any more evil than the other gods in his pantheon

3) The dueling mechanism a) balances unequal level characters and b) means absolutely nothing.

In short, you suck.