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Author Topic: Deep Throat  (Read 7574 times)

Chimera

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2005, 04:29:20 PM »
I'll forgive you. THIS time...

J/k  :-*
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The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2005, 04:46:32 PM »
my response to that essay is, essentially:
"so trying for peace justifies collusion to obstruct justice procedures? Interesting viewpoint."
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Chimera

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2005, 05:00:36 PM »
It is interesting that his path of logic places the blame of the horrors of the Khmer Rogue on Nixon getting impeached. I'm not sure if history works exactly that way--that the impeaching of an American president led to a horrible dictator killing thousands of his own people, and, therefore, the people who impeached Nixon have blood on their hands. That's a little of stretch for me.

History, to me, seems extremely subjective. There is no way to accurately recall an experience in the past, because it is not in the present moment any more and will be influenced by your perception. That's why it seems like every news article, which reports on the past, even if it is the recent past, has an agenda. It does! This article would have a completely different conclusion if it was written by a liberal who thought getting rid of Nixon was a good move. The author would have had just as much evidence to prove it (I think there have even already been such articles in this thread). This is one of the reasons that I find myself easily swayed by political arguments--they all seem to have evidence for why THEY are right and you better listen up. I am trying, though, to build up opinions of my own--without become closed off to the opposite viewpoint's valid arguments.

I guess that is the only way you can come to the "truth" with something more subjective like history and politics--you just have to read as much as you can and form your own opinions based on what you feel in your heart is true.
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Oseleon

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2005, 06:24:37 PM »
Quote

I've never thought of Newsweek as a particularly revealing or objective outlet. But it seems to me they're playing more to what the people already feel more than putting out a political idea.

And that includes manufacturing unverified stories about abuses that did not occour?  That includes puting lives at risk with such stories and actualy causing deaths in the riots that follow those stories...

Playing to the opinion is one thing... But CREATING stories to FORM an opinion is what Newsweek has done.  

They have the right.  Even if they use it to slander the very country that GAVE them that right

As to deepthroat.  So, do you think it's ok for someone to leak classified or secret information because of his own opinion?  I guess we can absolve the Spys who helped the Soviets get the Atomic Bomb in 49.  After all, in their opinion, they were doing the right thing.  

Classified is Classified if there is a problem you take it through channels, you dont go leaking it to the press, the Soviets or even your spouse.
Classified is Classified
« Last Edit: June 09, 2005, 06:32:53 PM by D66 »
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Skar

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2005, 07:34:26 PM »
Quote
my response to that essay is, essentially:
"so trying for peace justifies collusion to obstruct justice procedures? Interesting viewpoint."


Nope, all of Nixon's good actions do not justify his collusion.  However, I am kind of sick of hearing from the mainstream press what a villain Nixon was when we've had far worse done by sitting presidents and nary a peep out of the same journalists.

And, in my opinion, Felt should go to jail...now.  He can just walker his way into bubba's arms in my opinion.  Leaking classified information gets people killed and needs to be punished, not winked at by those who agree with the leaker's politics.  

I'm sure if you asked Felt, Woodward and Bernstein what their ideological goal was, they would have said peace too.  Maybe in their own minds they were trying for peace.  I find it hard to believe but...

Trying for peace isn't hard.  You can accomplish your goal without fail every time.  Just let the bad guys be in charge and don't resist.  You'll have murder, rape, torture, grinding starvational poverty, and all the other things that go along with pacifism in the face of aggression by the evil people of the world, but you will have peace.

And for that matter how is impeaching a sitting president, who you are especially gunning for because you disagree with his political views, trying for peace? It looks more like  ideological fanatacism to me.  If the "peace" you're talking about  is leaving the people of S. VietNam to their fate, a peace that led to hundreds of thousands of murders and the success of the Khmer Rouge, how is that a good thing?

Chimera:
The connection between Nixon's impeachment and the Khmer Rouge is a fairly direct one.  The Khmer Rouge was a small socialist rebel group in Cambodia that had only a small chance of taking over the country... until the N. VietNamese army poured over the border into Cambodia, to fight for the Khmer Rouge. That is when they achieved ascendancy.

If Nixon had stayed in office we would not have abandoned the people of S VietNam.  If we had not abandoned the people of S. VietNam the N. VietNamese army would not have been free to be the main military might of the Khmer Rouge. No killing fields.
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2005, 07:50:31 PM »
So if we're damned if we do and damned if we don't, at what point can we draw a line and do something about it? Classified is classified, and you don't go spreading secrets willy-nilly...but crime is crime, and you don't allow criminals to go free. When faced with a catch-22 like that, how are you supposed to choose?

An argument can be made that Felt should have kept his yap shut and turned a blind eye to criminal acts, thus maintaining, at the very least, his own moral standing by refusing to break his vows of secrecy. But that would make him an accessory to those acts, which kind of ruins his moral standing anyway.
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EUOL

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2005, 10:02:10 PM »
Yeah, I think he was in a very hard place.  However, perhaps the more honest thing to do would have been to either come out publicly, or to take his concerns to congress in a quiet way.  Something other than saving his own skin by calling some investigative reporters and spilling classified information to them in secret.
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Skar

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2005, 01:02:51 AM »
Fell asks a good question and I think EUOL has the right answer.  If the crimes your vow of secrecy is protecting are serious enough to endanger the national security, (whether the watergate crimes were or not is a whole 'nother debate) then they are certainly serious enough to warrant a bit of effort to take care of things through channels.  Doing it the way he did smacks of personal vendetta or at least agenda.  And classified information is not to be used so.
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JP Dogberry

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2005, 03:20:39 AM »
Ah national Security, that excellent buzzword for denying civilians freedom and breaking any laws the govenrment wants.

/me puts on asbestos underpants.
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Oseleon

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2005, 10:40:42 AM »
Yes, Cause your right to get a news scoop overrides the right of soldires in the field to live?  Overides the right of Civilians in Vietnam to not be conqured? Overrides the right of AFghans not to be killed in a riot?
When you have acess to classified informaion, You should know that you do not have the whole story.  You have a job to do.  Period.  You have that information because you need it to do your job.  YOu do your job and you keep your yap shut. You do not make policy.  
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JP Dogberry

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2005, 10:55:46 AM »
No, but I should, because I'm the smartest person in the world.
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Skar

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2005, 11:27:40 AM »
Quote
No, but I should, because I'm the smartest person in the world.


Yes, obviously.  :-X
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JP Dogberry

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2005, 10:42:34 PM »
Skar is the second smartest person in the world, because he can see how smart I am, and thinks it is obvious that I should rule the world.

Skar can name any major city or small country or such, and so long as I havn't given it away to someone else already, he can have it when I become king of the world.
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The Jade Knight

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2005, 02:32:41 AM »
While we're carving up the world, can I have Jersey (the island, not the state)?
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Skar

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2005, 02:33:51 AM »
Sweet!  Consider Salt Lake City so named.
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