Do you believe that God always had a physical body?
Well, this is getting into stuff that I'm not sure I have a full grasp on yet, but I will give it my best shot! We believe that God's time, along with the universe, is one eternal round and has no beginning or end. He is perfect so he bound to follow natural laws including the concept of mater: it is neither created or destroyed only changed and directed. He organized existing intelligence into spirits (us) and we can assume that his assent to Godhood was at least somewhat similar. What I can tell you for sure is that right now he has a body similar to our own but perfected as our bodies were created in his image.
I believe that only God is timeless. He created matter, space, and time at the same instant. He created the "natural" laws that govern everything in the universe.
I believe that in one sense Adam's sin was a perversion of God's plan, a blight upon the creation He deemed "very good". However, in another sense it was part of His plan all along, so that He could glorify Himself through sending His son to the cross.
So if Adam didn't sin, what would be the state of our existence? Would we exist at all? What is your concept of the devil and his role in the Fall?
And if you believe that God and Jesus are the same person, why is he called the son? I guess I just have a hard time understanding the concept of the Trinity in regards to Jesus' earthly ministry. Like who was he praying to if he is God himself?
If Adam and Eve had not sinned, we would be sinless beings, with the same moral capacity to make choices. However, I see this as being a moot point; if Adam and Eve had not sinned, someone else would have
I'd like to think if I had been in Adam's place I would have made the right choice, but who knows.
I believe that the devil, the angel called Lucifer, was the first to rebel against God and the first to sin. Consequently, he was the one who first introduced sin into the world that God pronounced "very good" and he was the one who tempted Eve. However, he did not make or force her or Adam to sin; that was their choice.
I do not believe that God the Father and Jesus are the same person. I believe they are different persons, yet are both codeity together with the Holy Spirit. All have existed eternally, yet differ in roles and authority.
I think I saw a picture on your site of someone being baptized by immersion and I thought it was cool because it seemed similar to how we do it. Is this something you all do? What is the usual age?
Yep, in just the last year or two we installed a baptism pool in our facility. Basically we believe that baptism is a symbol of an inward work in the heart. 1 Peter 3:21 "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
(ESV) Its a symbol of new life in us that was commanded by Jesus.
For people growing up in the church the general age is about 15-19 I suppose. They need to be able to give a clear testimony of their salvation and show through their lives that they have new spiritual life inside them. For new believers its generally six months - a year after they have been saved, I guess. I personally have not yet been baptized but I plan to do it in my senior year of high school.
Thanks again, but one thing we might consider is continuing this discussion into PMs unless someone else wants to contribute. I mean, it doesn't matter to me and I would enjoy it if someone else did want to chime in, but I would feel bad about keeping the discussion open here if it's only the two of us that are interested.
I was thinking similarly but it looks like Ookla has joined the conversation so we can keep it here
Thanks for your thoughts!
Reaves, regarding your c.) at the end there, that makes me wonder what your definition of salvation is and how it relates to the reward you get in heaven that is dependent on our acts in life.
I believe in the hell that Jesus promised to save us from if we would accept him into our lives. So in essence I see salvation as being moved from the kingdom of sin, where the punishment for sin is death, into the kingdom of heaven where Christ's righteousness is imputed to us.
However, the free gift of eternal life is not earned but given to anyone who believes and trusts in Jesus.
This sounds like a contradiction to me. If you say you have to believe and trust in Jesus in order to get eternal life, aren't you saying that is the way to earn it?
I suppose you could see it that way. If someone offers me a cool glass of water in a parched desert for free, and I believe him when he says its not poison, that could be considered a "work". But I believe that it was not us who first reached out to God asking for His help, but that we were in open rebellion against Him and He reached out to us, putting the glass of life-giving water in our hands. Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (For the future, all biblical references I'll be giving will be taken from the ESV Bible)
As for God having a physical body—are you saying something's impossible for God? We don't know how many universes God may have created, or whether any laws of physics existed in some form before he created the universe we live in, but we do know he created man in his own image.
I believe that God's power is unlimited, but qualified by His other attributes. For example, it
is impossible for God to lie because to do so would be to deny the very attributes that define Him as God. Neither can He deny His justice, because to do so would be to deny essential aspects of His character.
[ADDED:]
The insistence that works don't matter is a bit misplaced in modern Christianity. Historically there were two important periods to deemphasize works: back in the New Testament when some people were saying you still had to follow the law of Moses and all of the Pharisaical nitpickiness, and during the reformation when they were reacting against the Catholic church and the forgiveness of sins by saying a certain number of Hail Marys and Our Fathers and whatnot. Like the book of James says, some works have always been a required part of Christianity. Even the conscious choice of believing Jesus is the Christ is a work.
James 2:18 "But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
I think what James is saying is that it is very easy for someone to go to church and nod their head, saying Jesus is Lord. Its harder for that person to repent and break patterns of sin in their life, yet that is what God commands. James goes on to say in verse 21: "Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. "
It would have been impossible for Abraham to offer his son as a sacrifice to God if he had not had faith. It does say Abraham was justified by works...because of his faith, the faith that God put there. As always, God is the primary cause and we are the secondary.
Like I said before, anyone feel free to jump in! You don't need to be Mormon or Christian to participate in these discussions. Just share what you believe about God and who Jesus is.