Women and Men

[Spriggan]

humm seams 42 proved my point.  Maybe becasue the culturlay learned people tell us we're stupid if we say men and women aren't that different. And according to them it'll never change, when in fact it has changed.  Just look how social acceptable it is for women to have importand jobs, play sports, like video games ect.  Men and women may not have the same thought prosses, but we're not all that different.  Only those that want us to be different say so, for what ever reason/motive they have.

[fuzzyoctopus]

You don't think that having completely different thought processes is enough difference?  I'm obviously not saying that men and women are different enough to make it impossible to understand each other, Sprig.  What I'm saying is that men and women think differently enough that people have been complaining about it for centuries, and no one has come up with any solid conclusions about it, other than "hey, we're different."

[Spriggan]

and we never will Fuzzy.  No human, in my opinion, has the capability to understand how we think.  Psycology is called a Pusdo-Science for a reason, because it's not conclusive and nothing can ever be 100% proven.  To be fair, I think psychology is a Junk-science and is nothing but BS, so I'm biased in this conversation.

[42]

Actually, it was the academics during the 1920's that worked really hard to prove that men and women weren't different.

Also, as I send the interchanging between man vs women activities is almost a one way street. It's okay for a woman to hold an important job, but not okay for a man to collect tea cups or cross stitch unless he's gay.

Anthropalogically, what doesn't work is how come gender roles are so strictly enforced by both genders in third world cultures? It break down of gender roles almost happens exclusively in developed coutry as do incidents of homesexuality and transgender activity.

[fuzzyoctopus]

Also, as I send the interchanging between man vs women activities is almost a one way street. It's okay for a woman to hold an important job, but not okay for a man to collect tea cups or cross stitch unless he's gay.

Ok, so what about the new trend of 'metrosexuals' that's such a rage?  I would argue that in some cases it has become ok in the past year or two for a man to collect tea cups or get manicures, or whatever.  Or maybe it isn't.  Or maybe it's only ok for some people, in a few cities. I think it's a peculiar development either way.

[42]

I would say that's still a long ways off. Considering that I've been denied projects or even employment in certain industies based almost entirely on me being a man.

I was once working on a series of phone book ads for a hair salon, when the art director (a woman) took the project away from me as I was working on it and gave it a female designer. She bluntly said that I could create the ads because I was a man and wouldn't understand what a hair salon wants.

[Eagle Prince]

I just keep coming back to the idea that men are stereotyped with physically-envolved things, and the biggest nonsexual difference between men and women is how much stronger men are.  I think there's something to be said about that.

[EUOL]

Psychology is called a Pusdo-Science for a reason, because it's not conclusive and nothing can ever be 100% proven.

Okay, I take exception to this.  You may not agree with some psychological conclusions, but it is definitely NOT a pseudo-science.  It is a social science, a category of studies which have a very different structure than the physical sciences.  Also, a lot of things in psychology CAN be proven for a general audience.  Social sciences focus on large groups, for which they can be very specific.  With individuals they sometimes have troubles, however.

Men and women are VERY different.  This, I believe, is part of what interests us in each other.  Men are more aggressive/violent.  This is not just socialization, this is a pattern of behavior proven by countless societies and countless peoples on the earth.

Pointing out that you know exceptions to this rule is an invalid argument when speaking of the social sciences, since--as stated above--they deal in generalities.  In general, men are more aggressive, more visual, and more physically confrontational than women.  We have chemicals inside of us that produce certain effects on our bodies--it's not just in our heads.

[JP Dogberry]

Just to have 2c on the original subject of this thread, I do not like Sports or Pain at all - yesterday I banged my hip into a bench and it Fudging hurts.

That said, every week or so I tend to go fairly depressed for a few hours, in a kind of carthartic way. It gets it out of my system.

Women and Men are certainly different. That's why "Discrimination" is such a bad word to demonise, since there are differences between the genders that shouldn't be ignored, even if they also shouldn't interfere with oppurtunities.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

don't realy have much to add on the women and men subject, but as for psychology.... youc an't prove the foudnations. There's no way to get at empiracally what drives someone's thought process. You can only demonstrate generalities of how people act.

[fuzzyoctopus]

I don't think I'd call psychology a pseudo-science.  By that theory quantum physics is a pseudo-science.  And I think psychology has done a good job with a completely unknowable field - the human mind.  'cause they're all different, and they're all confusing.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

you can actually demonstrate more conclusive proofs in quantum mechanics than in psychology. however, I am NOT saying that it's a "pseudo" science. Just that it doesn't have the authority of something like chemistry, since few of the theories, if any, can be conclusive.

[42]

There are actually concuclusive theories in psychology, such as behavioral conditioning, brain wave patterns, some aspects of human development and abnormal psychology. It's things like gender and personality psychology that have really shaking foundations.

Course, psychologist are a lot more willing to challenge the status quo more often than say medical scientist or chemist. Course, my relatives that are professors in the biological sciences are always quick to point out that nothing is really set in stone in a large part of the hard sciences.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

actually, you're still talking about manifestations there. There's no conclusive theory about WHY behavioral conditioning work.

To bring up an old discussion, I think this is because so many of them reject plain old choice.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Im not sure theres a conclusive theory about why gravity works either, but the study of physics is a science.