December 27, LTU, The Canticle and the Forge (third draft) Chapter 4

[LongTimeUnderdog]

Chapter 1: Karemoth is the best devil hunter in the Hellfane desert. During a dando hunt, he and the hunter caste of the Ziphoa tribe suffer unforseen complications. A strange little girl appears at the battle with the Devil there and Karemoth is forced to cut off his foot during the rescue.

Chapter 2: Karemoth wakes up after falling unconsious. He discovers his family, Teravan, High Chief, and Hammond have helped him recover but had to remove more of his leg then he did, because of an infection. Karemoth comes under risk of having to "return," the act of suiciding to help the tribe because a person is no longer capable of bringing in food. He decides to fight against the returning and wants to prove he can still hunt devils.

Chapter 3: Karemoth struggles against his new disability but ultimately fails in his attempts to reassert himself as Chief hunter.  A dark season strikes and his trail is held three huuks earlier then it should have been.

Chapter4: In which Karemoth is tried and found in need of returning.  His reaction to such things.

[akoebel]

First off, I'm going to point out that this is the first chapter I read of your book, so things are probably going to be more difficult for me, since I'm missing a large quantity of material.

My, what a hefty chapter that was!

Now, the one thing that emerges in my mind after reading it is confusion, especially in the two combat scenes where I have a really hard time knowing what's going on.

Some sentences did seem to plop out from nowhere. For instance, the cake comment in the middle of a battle? Even if it has been setup before, putting it here only pulls the reader out of the battle scene.

Aside from the very end, this is a single sequence with no break (you might want to add some), and the transitions between sub-scenes do appear as very abrupt (there is a attack on the village, the attack stops, and right then, it's off to the trial?). I would have liked smoother transitions (or scene breaks at least).

Now, from a character point of view, I found it hard to believe that the protagonist wouldn't think about his trial until after the attack on the village was done. I even think that the impending trial would have an effect on his behavior during the battle (he might have gone to prove that he was useful, or tried to get himself killed, or something else). Yet, not even a single thought on the matter until after the attack is over.

On a side note, you might want to do some research on riding apparel for disabled people. I have a hard time believing that you can grab any mount , and have it working without some sort of device to help the rider stay in (there have to be balance issues to solve at least)

[hubay]

Like akoebel  said, there's a lot going on in this chapter. You do a pretty good job making the scenes feel intense, and keeping everything flowing along, but I think as a whole the chapter feels too condensed. At the beggining you have the whole deal with the Red Beast, then there's the trial, then there's the whole battle with the witches. at the very least, you should put in a line break between sections, but I think the whole chapter might do better if it was split in two.

Your description of the Red Beast sounds confusing. I'm guessing that's sort of the point, but saying "twenty-four orbs floated around it, only eight of them were visible," doesn't really make sense. How does karemoth know there are 24, if he can only see 8 – previous experience? If that's the case you should probably indicate it, maybe say instead "though he knew 24 blue orbs circled the demon, right now only eight showed."

when you show the "voices" of the demon, near the begining, the first thing I think of is the Black Wind from WoT . The Wind's voice was presented in one constant stream in one paragraph, and i think as a result it was a lot creepier. the way you've written the voices seems choppy, and it reduces some of the impact of what should be pretty strong statements. I'm not saying you should just copy Jordan's format, but you might want to work on that so its more powerful.

I haven't read your previous drafts, so I'm interested to learn more about the witches, and how different their world is from karemoth's.

[Asmodemon]

Wow, this is a big one, nearly 10K all told. A lot of things happen and I like that it did, but maybe it 's a bit too much in too short a time. It wouldn't be so bad if there were breaks in the chapter – either in sections or chapters. As it is now the chapter feels rushed, even though it's 10K. It's like it's all happening in a matter of minutes, the darkness, the trial, the witches.

While I can understand how the darkness decreased the time before Karemoth's trial I find it very inappropriate they do it when just a moment ago they were attacked by darken. As far as anyone knows those things are still around. The tribe has only gathered together, but nothing is being done about the dark season! The darken moved off,  yes, but they could come back at any moment. And besides, there were only a few and others could easily show up as well (for a grand total of 24 yes?).

The timing of the trial seems strange. Some of the vehemence also seems strange – it's like he's the greatest criminal the tribe has ever known. That doesn't seem to fit with what he is supposed to have done for the tribe in thirty years.

Afterwards Karemoth gives Teraven a whole lecture on witch superstition, as if Teraven has never heard the idea that witches have no parents before. Like Karemoth waited all this time to spring this knowledge (where does it come from?) on him. Also, Teraven knows nothing of slavery? I find that hard to believe in an adult in as harsh a world as this one.

Also after the immediacy of the trial suddenly Karemoth can go where he pleases and go on some wide-eyed mission against Anaiah. Is there anyone who could seriously give him a bulou and not expect him to run? Why isn't he apprehended, he made it pretty clear he thinks the whole trial was a circus? Also, after all the trouble in the last chapters in getting him to walk he does all this walking and riding bulou with a lot of ease when he needs to.

It's these things that sort of make me frown. Some breaks in this beast of a chapter will help, as well as some perspective on why the tribe is so set on 'returning' Karemoth.

[LongTimeUnderdog]

Wow did it take me forever to get back you guys.  Thanks so much for what you said.  I really appreciate it all.

I will admit to some confusion about your confusion, however.  So starting at the bottom of the comments and moving up  . . .

Asmodemon:  I get what your saying about the darken and the fear of them coming back.  But I don't understand the confusion about Teravan and his ignorance of witches.  The other part I get in your misunderstanding, and it's only a "misunderstanding," because I didn't include enough for you, the reader.

hubay:  I can't stand The Wheel of Time.  I think Brandon Sanderson deserves to be placed with people like Charles Dickens and Hemingway, but no matter how hard I try, I can't read any of the WoT books.  And believe me, I've tried.  So when you talk about "The Black Wind," I have no idea what you're talking about.  Okay you were actually pretty clear in how it was written, but I have no basis to compare my voices to that black wind thing.  You're a very helpful critiquer (is that even a real word?) and you're really smart about it too.  But I only understand the technical side of what you're saying.  The confusion about the Red Beast, however, still confuses me.  I don't know how to make it any clearer. Well maybe there's one word I could change, or add . . . but I don't understand the confusion.  If you can reread or remember back that far to help clarify, I would be very grateful.

akoelbel:  I think I'm starting to see a pattern in the things people are taking issue with (and their very good reasons for taking issue with them).  But I don't understand why.  Or at least not fully.  I suspect it is time between chapters (a long time as things are coming up here).  I also suspect the learning curve of the story.  The biggest road block I've head, so to speak, is that everything in this world I'm writing, is alien.  Alright almost everything.

Now to address a few things:

You guys, are awesome.  Plain and simple.  Thanks for reading, thank you for commenting, and an even bigger thank you for doing it consistently.

Confusion about the Red Beast:  I reread the parts of the chapter where I talk about it.  Describe it, and such.  I used the word "Season," because I thought it would invoke the idea of a repetitive occurrence, actually.  I mean, when fall comes and the leaves change, I don't freak out, I get a jacket and go make piles to jump in.  I mean . . . for my daughter to jump in.  Yeah.

On the other hand, I really can't expect anyone to remember that the first time I mentioned "Red Beast," was on page 5 of the first chapter.  I mean, it's not like it was months ago or something when ya'll read it.  Come on guys, can't you remember this inanely pointless stuff?

As to what the Red Beast is, In chapter 3 I mentioned it had gold rings and some twenty blue orbs fluttering around it.  In chapter four I described it as:

It was a like an enourmous fiery red ball that swirled and glowed as if everything about it was burning and burning and never stopped.  Great, blue orbs floated around it.  Twenty-four of them in total.  Only eight were visible.

.

So again, I think the confusion is coming because of time between chapters.  correct me, please, if I'm wrong.  Best to know everything to change now instead of learning about it after the fact.

To me, the descriptors above indicate the Red Beast to be a sort of cross between Jupiter and Saturn, some big red planet with rings around it and 25 moons (counting the one the story actually takes place on).  And that is exactly what I wanted to communicate.

Teravan not knowing what slavery is:  Well . . . How and When did you learn that slavery existed?  If you're like me it was during Black History Month while in elementary school.  I learned it existed (or exists if you wanna include black market dealings) because someone told me about it.  The only people around who even remotely know anything about witches are Karemoth and Hammond (being the only two old enough to have lived when they were digging the craters and living in the Fane).  Because they live in a society that does have slaves (or at least, they don't call them that) how would Teravan learn what a slave is?  He lives in a freakin' hole in the ground, after all.

Okay, okay.  You're probably right about the slavery thing.

But on something a bit more serious (or at least less pressuring) thank you guys so much for your support.  I'll have another chapter soon.  And an extra goodie (or curse maybe) along with it.  A few more to go, and we'll be getting to see the Witches. 

[hubay]

Ok. I did figure your red beast was something a long the lines of strange planet. and I think actually never read your third chapter until just now, because the file format was .odt instead of .doc. Now that that's taken care of it makes a bit more sense.

As for the black wind, I just meant it might flow better as a solid paragraph, almost written stream-of-consciousness style. Usually that sort of writing makes the voice seem more chaotic.

[LongTimeUnderdog]

I think you're really on to something there with what you're saying Hubay.  IT has been on my mind a bit, trying to figure a more . . . not Wheel of Time . . . way to do it.  If you have suggestions I'd love to hear them.

[hubay]

Hm, well I don't know if this would quite work with your world, but maybe try having the voices argue with each other? Still as one paragraph, like I said, but alternate different voices with italics. The argument would have to be something suitably dark, and probably not very logical. Perhaps over what they will do with their souls, or how best to play with their remains. It would make the demon seem a little less sane, and probably creepier.

If you go the 'one paragraph' route, though, you need the voices to say more than you did when they were individual lines, to give it a little more meat.