Author Topic: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*  (Read 7427 times)

yakumo fujii

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Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« on: October 03, 2010, 11:36:41 AM »
Given the rapidly approaching release of this novel, it deserves it's own thread even though this forum focuses on Brandon's unique works.

The prologue has been released, as has chapter 1.

I thought that they were both great and can't wait to see what the rest of the book has in store.

I predict that Graendal manages to off Min and Cadsuane, but is taken out in turn by Nynaeve.  Rand dies at the climax of the book, at whose hands I'm not sure. Gawyn perhaps? I think Lan bites it as well.

douglas

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2010, 04:32:58 PM »
I'm pretty sure the Foretellings/visions/etc. dealing with Rand's death indicate that all three of his girls will be mourning him, so I'm pretty confident Min will survive to that point.  Of course, Rand's death will be faked or somehow temporary, so anything could happen after his "resurrection".  Rand could "die" in ToM, but I think that's more likely to be in A Memory of Light.

Graendal is definitely going to cause some havoc, though, it's just hard to predict the details.  Cadsuane is a possibility, and if Graendal finds out about the Warder bond she might go after Alanna.  I'll be amused if she ends up killing Rand (the one recoverable time that we keep getting prophetic indications for) and then the Dark One punishes her for offing him before Tarmon Gai'don.

The one plot arc that I'm looking forward to most, though, is the Tower of Ghenjei expedition to rescue Moiraine.

Stormblessed

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2010, 02:46:24 AM »
The one plot arc that I'm looking forward to most, though, is the Tower of Ghenjei expedition to rescue Moiraine.

Same here. I've always found Mat to be one of the most interesting characters, especially with his interactions with the snakes and foxes.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier

peasupplyco

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2010, 05:19:36 AM »
Yes, I am definitely looking forward to the Tower of Ghenjei  ;D

Also, seeing the way Rand has dramatically changed makes me want to see how he will fix his relationships with everyone and deal with Egwene.

 

Kykeon

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2010, 07:43:19 AM »
Ugh, Eggy will be a tough nut, especially since she still thinks that *he* used foul play to get the alligiance of the tower  ajah.
Yes, verin gave her a notbook, but that only about the Black Ajah AFAIK.  :-\
It will be great to see Moraine  again. :)

Terez

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2010, 08:10:56 AM »
Rand's death will be faked or somehow temporary, so anything could happen after his "resurrection".  Rand could "die" in ToM, but I think that's more likely to be in A Memory of Light.

Seeing as how three separate prophecies say he will die, it seems highly unlikely he'll get away with faking it. I'm hoping it will be at the end of TOM, but I guess it all depends on whether they thought it was an appropriate cliffhanger for the penultimate book. The prophecies do seem to indicate that he'll die before the Last Battle is won, and then be resurrected to finish the job.

Galavantes

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2010, 08:34:09 AM »
Rand's death will be faked or somehow temporary, so anything could happen after his "resurrection".  Rand could "die" in ToM, but I think that's more likely to be in A Memory of Light.

 The prophecies do seem to indicate that he'll die before the Last Battle is won, and then be resurrected to finish the job.
They do? Granted its been years since I've given the whole series a full read through, but I must have missed this.

Kykeon

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2010, 08:54:49 AM »
He was seen with three women standing over him in mourning, but his "corpse" dissolved into leafs when Egwene touched it.
Or  something in that direction.

Terez

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2010, 08:55:42 AM »
Rand's death will be faked or somehow temporary, so anything could happen after his "resurrection".  Rand could "die" in ToM, but I think that's more likely to be in A Memory of Light.

 The prophecies do seem to indicate that he'll die before the Last Battle is won, and then be resurrected to finish the job.
They do? Granted its been years since I've given the whole series a full read through, but I must have missed this.

Probably because it's buried under some red herrings, like the idea that he will die at Shayol Ghul, which is inspired by the 'blood on the rocks' prophecies. However, there's nothing that actually says he will die there.

Nicola has a Foretelling - 'The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade.'

Most people assume that the 'great battle' is the Last Battle, and that there was a temporary truce with the Seanchan, and now that the Last Battle's done, they've gone back to fighting each other. But that interpretation overlooks a few important questions:

1. Why is the land still 'divided by the Return'? The temporary truce idea seems weak to me, partly because it seems like the only logical option to Rand (which is often a good clue that RJ was planning something completely different). This wording makes it seem like events are simply progressing as they have been...and we know that the two must be 'as one' in order for Rand to have a fighting chance at Tarmon Gai'don.  If the truce was so fickle as that, then I don't think the words 'as one' ever truly applied.

2. Why does the future teeter on the edge of a blade, if the Last Battle's done? The Seanchan are just another enemy, when all is said and done. But if the Last Battle is not yet won, then the future truly does teeter on the edge of a blade.

3. Why are Rand and his harem central to the Foretelling, if the Last Battle is done? So far as we know, Rand's responsibilities end when the Dark One is defeated, and if it's just about bringing him back to life so that he can live happily ever after...why is it so dire?

This Foretelling is also backed up by a dream that was shared by two Wise Ones: 'Melaine and Bair dreamed of you on a boat...with three women whose faces they could not see, and a scale tilting first one way then the other.'

Again, why is that scale tilting? Why is this particular scene so important, if the Last Battle is done?

I see no choice but to assume that the 'great battle' refers to something else. The Battle of Caemlyn is likely, as it's the ultimate battle of Arthurian legend, and a likely place for Rand to die. Things definitely seem to be converging on Caemlyn, and of course the Black Tower is right outside the city. I think it's likely to be the final battle between the Seanchan and Randland forces, which would mean that Tuon would probably attack the Black Tower and the city at the same time. Rand dies, and the battle is a stalemate (something like Rand vs. Seanchan in Altara), and while Rand is dead, Mat and Tuon work out the details of the two becoming one. I suspect the marriage consummation symbolism will be at least somewhat tied into it.

Aside from the prophecies, I get the feeling that one of the questions RJ wanted to explore with this series was, 'What would happen if the Chosen One died before saving the world?' Of course, it will be alright in the end, but it makes for good drama. :)

Galavantes

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2010, 05:20:02 PM »
Strange, I always thought that the "two become one" line referred to Rand resolving his little Lewis Theron schitzophrinia problem.

guy

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2010, 06:05:45 PM »
I am way hoping for someone to beat the collective piss out of the Asha'man, and i have been getting excited to see perin again.
also i dont think he will die, it would be cool, but if he did, he would be revived because that seems to happen alot in this series
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 06:07:59 PM by guy »

Terez

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2010, 08:08:47 PM »
Strange, I always thought that the "two become one" line referred to Rand resolving his little Lewis Theron schitzophrinia problem.

In the context, 'the two must be as one' is geographical, since it was preceded by The north and the east must be as one. The west and the south must be as one.'

guessingo

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2010, 09:51:33 PM »
I believe I read somewhere that Brandon said there is a twist in the book that no one is expecting. I hope some good guy actually dies. I like the good guys, but there is no tension if no one dies.

I think a large part of the book will take place in Seanchen. The Towers of Midnight are located in Seanchen(it is in the guide) and near the capital. I think Mat will blow the Horn of Valare in Seanchen and then Artur Hawkwing will talk to them. That is a hunch. Nothing in the book whatsoever to base it on.


Terez

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2010, 09:59:28 PM »
I believe I read somewhere that Brandon said there is a twist in the book that no one is expecting.

He did, but it is a specific sort of twist. He compared it to Vin's earring, and he said that the first clues of it show up in books 4-6 (in one of them, or all three - he won't say). He says it's a mystery we should have picked up on when it was introduced, and that it's something that comes up often in later books.

My best bet at the moment is that it has to do with Egwene's dream about ravens sinking into the flesh of Mat's shoulders. The dream was in book six, and the significance of the tattoos is explained in book four.

Quote from: guessingo
I think a large part of the book will take place in Seanchen.

It won't. RJ assured us that the story would not visit Seanchan again, and Brandon is respecting RJ's wishes on this. RJ left open a small possibility that there might be a visit comparable in length to Rand's and Aviendha's visit there in 'The Far Snows' and 'A Short Spear', but nothing any more substantial than that. He said the same about Shara.

Have you read chapter 1 yet? I think that's the most we'll get.

guessingo

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Re: Towers of Midnight *spoilers*
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2010, 12:16:33 AM »
then the tower of midnight in seanchen may be related to the tower of ghenjei in rand land.