Shattered Plain War Questions (Possible Spoilers)

[Inkthinker]

I got the impression that they'd been doing it the whole time, but nobody had really bothered to pay attention.

The thing with Dalinar kicking the war up to the next level is that, if we're right about the Parshendi tactics, it's just going to kick their response up to match. And we really don't know what they might be capable of.

[happyman]

I'm worried that the Parshendi have had a constant influx of reinforcements as Parshmen (or whatever) get changed to become Parshendi.  Or something like that.  After all, their estimates of how the war is going is based on the assumption that they know how many Parshendi they are.  They could be totally wrong.

[GeekMan]

Well, if we accept the theory that the Parshendi are not trying to win the war and are merely matching forces to the Alethi to make a "good" fight (for whatever ulterior reason), then we must also accept that the Parshendi are far more advanced in the art of war than the Alethi believe.  This would mean that, contrary to the Alethi-held belief, the Parshendi are not simple barbarians who are only able to use rudimentary wartime tactics.  And that most likely there are FAR more Parshendi out there than any Alethi actually believes there are, ready and willing to jump into the fight whenever the time is right.  I hold that this would also mean that the Parshendi know of ways to neutralize or destroy the bridges that they are NOT using yet because for some reason only they know at the moment they WANT the Alethi to place the bridges and reach them to fight hand to hand.

[ryos]

I hold that this would also mean that the Parshendi know of ways to neutralize or destroy the bridges that they are NOT using yet because for some reason only they know at the moment they WANT the Alethi to place the bridges and reach them to fight hand to hand.

I just reread the Tower battle sequence, because I needed a little awesome in my life. And one detail that emerged more strongly to me is that the Parshendi Shardbearer was lookng for Dalinar. Well, phrased that way, it doesn't make any sense: Dalinar's location has never been a secret, and if they really wanted to talk to him, they would have done much better to honor their treaty with Gavilar.

The obvious answer is that they were looking for a person who bore a mantle, and didn't know who it was. From page 938:

Why didn't the Shardbearer just finish him? The Parshendi giant leaned down, then spoke. The words were thick with accent, and Dalinar's mind nearly dismissed them. But here, up close, Dalinar realized something. He understood what was being said. The accent was nearly impenetrable, but the words were in Alethi.

"It is you," the Parshendi Shardbearer said. "I have found you at last."

That chapter is titled "Eshonai", a word that is not used anywhere in the text of the chapter. So, here's the theory: the Parshendi Shardbearer (or PS) immediately recognized Dalinar as the Eshonai. I say "the" Eshonai because I think it's a title, not a name. Or a name-title, much as Elisha is a name-title in the Bible, which carries with it an associated mantle/role/responsibility.

This whole affair, ranging clear back to the assassination of Gavilar, up through the Parshendi tactics on the Shattered Plains, could have been designed to draw out the Eshonai. Not just to find him, but to create a situation in which the mantle would pass to someone. This implies a level of mastermindery that may well be beyond the Parshendi, but they could also have acted as servants of a Shard.

Which Shard they may have been serving is, I believe, a very key question. The obvious answer is Odium, since Parshmen are (if Jasnah is correct) the Voidbringers. But then what is the Eshonai? The only thing of cosmic significance about Dalinar (at least, that we've seen) is his visions...from the Almighty. He is best situated to unite mankind. He is best positioned to reestablish the Knights Radiant. In Odium's opinion, he ought to be public enemy #1, which begs the question, "Why didn't the PS off him immediately?"

Could it be that the Parshendi do not actually serve Odium? That the Almighty was somehow able to liberate them from servitude to the Enemy, and to raise them above the common Parshman? That this whole thing is really a design of the Almighty, to get mankind ready for the Everstorm?

Or could it be that Dalinar is the "one who will destroy us"? From the back cover:

There are four whom we watch. The first is the surgeon, forced to put aside healing to become a soldier in the most brutal war of our time. The second is the assassin, a murderer who weeps as he kills. The third is the liar, a young woman who wears a scholar's mantle over the heart of a thief. The last is the highprince, a warlord whose eyes have opened to the past as his thirst for battle wanes.

The world can change. Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again. These four people are key.

One of them may redeem us.

And one of them will destroy is.

The obvious choice of who will destroy is Szeth. But, Taravangian seems to think that Dalinar's success in uniting Alethkar would be disastrous. Does Odium want a united Alethkar? Why?

Sorry. This is long and rambling, and I have more questions then answers, but I think this is very interesting.

[ryos]

I know double posting is frowned upon, but I didn't want to mess with my epic mess of a last post. But, I DID want to explore a different angle that I somehow didn't manage to hit on in that long and rambling treatise.

The Parshendi could well be acting as they always do leading up to a Desolation. It's shown that they have a long memory, because they recognize Kaladin's use of Stormlight, are afraid of it, and give it a name in their language. Do they just always seek for Eshonai when the Desolation comes again?

My offhanded reference to Elisha in my last post got me thinking. Eshonai is a similar word to Elisha. It even sounds Hebrew. What if that's not just a coincidence, but a hint? The Elisha is a forerunner; John the Baptist was an Elisha who prepared the way for the coming of Christ. Is there always an Eshonai, called of the Almighty and bestowed with visions, to prepare the way for the coming of the Heralds and usher in the next Desolation? Do the Parshendi just always seek him/her when the time comes?

I'm off the edge of the map here. I know it. But holy cow, I'm smitten with this idea. Dalinar, Highprince of Kholin, Highprince of War, Eshonai of the Almighty, forerunner to the Everstorm, cofounder of the restored order of the Knights Radiant. *squee*

[Stormblessed]

I raise the question, what if the person in the Dalinar's visions is not the Almighty, but someone pretending to be him (e.g. Odium or the B guy - can't remember his name)?

Anyway, great theory ryos. Missed it completely (should pay attention to chapter headings more often  ) I think there is definitely something there.

With the Elisha thing, that could be a deliberate connection made by Brandon (just like Elantris (the city) = Atlantis), or he could be completely oblivious of it (like who he use to call Elantris (the book this time, not the city) THE SPIRIT OF ADONIS)

[nomti]

However, after re-reading the book again I do have a another question about the bridge runs. I'm sure there's a reason that I'm overlooking, but I can't seem to figure it out. Here's my question; why is it that as soon as the crew reaches the chasm with the bridge that the arrows stop?  Put another way, why don't the Parshendi simply wait to fire their arrows until the bridge crews were at the chasms?

<snip>

Am I, once again, missing something obvious here?

I think so.  Once a bridge gets to a chasm, soldiers help push it across, if too many of its bridgemen have died.  Soldiers are armored, and have shields, making them much harder to kill.  For those same reasons, they can't really carry the bridges.  Take a bridge out twenty feet from the edge, it's down.  Take it out at the edge, it's coming across anyway.

[Xavien]

This is a great discussion.  As far as using fire arrows on the bridges there are a few other things to consider:

Highstorms - These bridges are left out in highstorms.  It is never mentioned if they are treated and if they are what they are treated with, but getting an extremely heavy rain every couple of days is going to make them much more difficult to set on fire.

Time - They get 2-3 volleys of arrows off now.  With fire arrows they would probably only get off 1 (less range+time to light).  You would also either need 2 people per archer, one to light one to shoot, or one man running down the line lighting arrows.

ROI - Return on Investment.  Getting 4-6 (sometimes more) bridge crews down is more guaranteed with their current strategy.  It would take a lot more time for the wood to actually catch on fire to the point that the bridge is unusable, especially with cavalry and soldiers running over it and helping stamp out the flames. And as far as pitch goes, there is an abundance of dirt/rock/sand to thrown down on pitch.

It is entirely possible the Parshendi tried something like flaming arrows, but I imagine they learned they got better results by just firing on the bridge crews.

Other things:
The arrows don't stop as soon as the bridge reaches the chasm.  Dunny was hit by a Parshendi arrow after laying the bridge, and immediately after by a Alethi arrow.  By the time the bridges reach the chasm the Parshendi are being hit by return fire so they are more disorganized and are moving back.

You couldn't just surround a plateau that the Parshendi were on unless you had a ridiculous amount of troops.  Since the Parshendi can just jump across chasms they can very quickly move to the weakest point and jump across and break through.  With the Alethi fighting independently they wouldn't have the numbers and they don't have that level of mobility.

Siege equipment is an interesting idea, I think this just comes down to time.  Suprised Dalinar doesn't use them, as his bridges are considered more like siege towers being pulled by chulls but I imagine you would have to make the bridges much heavier.  Dalinar and one of his officers discussed using a combination or man carried bridges and the "siege bridges" but it was determined that the bridge would end up being too unwieldy for men to carry. Overall I think this has more to do with speed, there isn't time for a proper siege.  Laying siege to a tower would also give the parshendi more time to work on getting the gemheart and just running away with it.

[Erunion]

One thing that's been rumbling around in my head for a while now, is that Parshendi are voidbringers, but they aren't evil, or even Odium's servants. First off, the evidences. They behave in an honourable fashion towards their enemies, as can be seen throughout the book and throughout this thread. Secondly, Jasnah's references that she brought up seem to strongly indicate that the Parshendi are voidbringers.
But how is this possible?
Voidbringer = Bringer of the Void? One whom the void follows?
Perhaps the Parshendi bring the void by accident? Or, are chased by the void? Perhaps the parshendi "migrated" to Roshar, and are being chased by "the void", much like a predator following a migratory animal.
This would explain their behaviour in wanting to bring the Alethi  out to play war with them. Get the Alethi who have some twenty or so shardbearers into a position where they must fight "the void". Perhaps Taravangian understands this, and doesn't want Dalinar to unite the Alethi/crush the Parshendi because they need the Parshendi as allies in the upcoming war.

[EvilNuff]

Incidentally with Jasnah's theory that "something happened" that turned the Parshmen into Parshendi, has anyone else thought of this:

“The Parshendi? That makes no sense.” Gavilar coughed, hand quivering, reaching toward his chest and fumbling at a pocket. He pulled out a small crystalline sphere tied to a chain. “You must take this. They must not get it.” He seemed dazed. “Tell…tell my brother…he must find the most important words a man can say….”

The crystalline sphere on a chain, I am thinking that is what caused the transformation.

[Stormblessed]

Perhaps the Parshendi bring the void by accident? Or, are chased by the void? Perhaps the parshendi "migrated" to Roshar, and are being chased by "the void", much like a predator following a migratory animal.
This would explain their behaviour in wanting to bring the Alethi  out to play war with them. Get the Alethi who have some twenty or so shardbearers into a position where they must fight "the void". Perhaps Taravangian understands this, and doesn't want Dalinar to unite the Alethi/crush the Parshendi because they need the Parshendi as allies in the upcoming war.

Sorry but this sounds really really similar to Jim Butcher's Codex Alera books.

[Inkthinker]

It's probably because the more he says "the void", my brain transliterates "the Vord". Not to mention the whole issue of migration that plays a part in pushing the Alerans against the Canim.

[Stormblessed]

It's probably because the more he says "the void", my brain transliterates "the Vord". Not to mention the whole issue of migration that plays a part in pushing the Alerans against the Canim.

And the Vord had always followed the Marat when they migrated.

[Erunion]

Interesting. I have never read those books before, so the references are completely coincidental...