Author Topic: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*  (Read 13986 times)

Timemaster11

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Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« on: September 26, 2010, 08:30:58 PM »
I believe I have discovered the identities of all the Herald images.

First, if one looks in the Ars Arcanium, one may notice that the ten numbers for the ten essences are actually shortened versions of the Herald names. 
1)Jes=Jezrien
2)Nan=Nalan
6)Shash=Shalash
8)Kak=Kalak
9)Tanat=Talenel (also known as Talenelat)
10)Ishi=Ishar

Thus, we have the element association of each of the Heralds, as well as on abbreviated form of all of their names.

Also, note that on the front inside cover, the image with all the symbols surrounded by the Herald images, if one starts with the blue symbol and moves clockwise around the image, the symbols appear to match, in order, with the Gemstones.
1)Blue-Sapphire
3)Red-Ruby
4)White-Diamond
5)Green-Emerald
6)Red-Garnet
8)Purple-Amethyst
9)Dark Yellow-Topaz

Now, note that approximately above each symbol is one of the Herald images.
My theory is that the Herald image above each symbol is the Herald of that gemstone.

Supporting evidence:
1) The image easily identified, Jezrien, is associated with the sapphire symbol.
2) It is stated that the Heralds are 5 female, 5 male.  Of those, Jezrien, Nalan, Kalak, and Talenel are all known to be male.  The gemstone symbols connected to these 4 are all associated with male images. 
3) Many believe that Ishar is a male-sounding name, and believe Ishar to be the fifth male.  Ishar's gemstone symbol is associated with the fifth male image.
4) It is noted that whenever Hoid appears, his image appears.  Assuming that there is some pattern to the appearing of the other images, another image can be positively identified.  In the epilogue, the helmed image appears.  Thus, it appears Talenel is the helmed image.  Note now that the helmed image is associated with Talenel's gemstone symbol, Topaz.
5) From the specifics of Shallan's attributes, it has been thought that Shallan is of the 6th radiant order, Garnet, thus associated with Shalash.  Note that each of the times she enters Shadesmar, the image of the lady with a jewel on her forehead appears.  This image is the one associated with the garnet symbol.

On a side note, there are only 3 non-Shallan chapters where the proposed-Shalash image appears.  One of those is the Baxil chapter, where that image is the only one.  It has been separately proposed that Baxil's mistress is actually Shalash, which fits well with that image being the sole one for the chapter.
5
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 02:55:33 AM by Timemaster11 »

ROSHtafARian

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2010, 10:39:05 PM »
I posted this in the Heralds thread, but bringing it over here, some additional things to think about that could support Shallan being of the order Shalash is tied to, and Shalash being Baxil's mistress is if there are two Orders that use Soulcasting, Shallan and Jasnah seem to be of the two of them, instead of them both being of the same one, due to specifics of Shallan's Soulcasting experiences that Jasnah is surprised by.  Added to Shallan's artistic skills and how they're tied to a seemingly mystical kind of Memories and that Jasnah has no appreciation or respect for art, it would seem to follow that art and Memories are part of what's specific to Shallan's order and sets it apart from the other Order wielding a form of Soulcasting.  Baxil's mistress being Shalash and her obssession with artistic representations of herself would definitely seem to tie into the idea that she is the Herald of Shallan's order, and art plays a big role in their specific nature.

Timemaster11

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2010, 11:12:43 PM »
One question to consider is how Brandon chose the images for each chapter, and what those might tell us about those chapters.  For instance, most chapters with Jasnah have the woman associated with Emerald.  The two main times we see her obviously soulcast, this Herald is in the chapter headings.  Yet, the time both Jasnah and Shallan go to Shadesmar, the Herald in the chapter heading besides Shalash is the one associated with Zircon.
The first one has the attributes Just/Confident
The second one has the attributes Wise/Careful

I think these may be the two main options we have for Jasnah's order.

It would be interesting to see what all we can surmise from the Heralds chosen in the chapter headings.

ROSHtafARian

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 11:17:53 PM »
Hmm, I don't have the table in front of me, but what are the essences or attributes associated with Shalash and Shallan's presumed order?  The Garnet one?

Timemaster11

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2010, 11:23:12 PM »
Yes.  The attributes for that order associated with Garnet are Creative/Honest.  The essence is blood.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 11:25:22 PM by Timemaster11 »

ROSHtafARian

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2010, 11:31:45 PM »
Yeah, I'd have to say I don't see how Shallan could possibly be anything other than Garnet, with the spren requiring a great Truth from her to Soulcast, and with some kind of power with her art.  And given Shalash's preoccupation with art, there's some power in the creation of certain kinds of art, or the things or people depicted in that art, and she pretty much has to be the Herald attached to that order.  Plus creativity and honesty definitely seem like the attributes of a godlike figure called Lady of Dreams at some point throughout history.

Which means I'm pretty convinced you're dead on with the other identities as well.

Stormblessed

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2010, 01:09:42 AM »
Jasnah is probably from the other order that can soulcast. SHe is definitely not creative, and spurns art, so she could not be of the same order as Shallan. This would also explain why Jasnah was surprised by the line spren that were following Shallan, as for Jasnah it is probably a totally different experience.
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Stormblessed

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2010, 01:18:09 AM »
Now that we know what picture relates to which herald, can we work out why each Herald is related to each chapter? I think we have most of them already, such as Shalash and Hoid, but there are still a number of chapters unaccounted for.
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ROSHtafARian

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2010, 02:00:38 AM »
Well, do the Emerald, Garnet or Zircon Heralds show up at the headings to any chapters with Elkohar?  Depending on if the line headed spren are associated with any kind of soulcasting, or if there are two different kinds of spren for the two different versions of soulcasting, Elkohar as a potential Soulcaster could reveal a lot.  If Shalash is one of the images with chapters he's in, that would seem to indicate he's potentially of the same order as Shallan...but as I think he's more likely of the same order as Jasnah, if Zircon or Emerald head any of his chapters, that might indicate that one is the other Soulcasting order.  Personally I think Emerald is the other Soulcasting order, as I think the attributes fit Jasnah better than Wise/Careful, especially with all her talk of ethics and morals....whether you agree with her stance on morality, SHE'S completely convinced of the rightness of her moral stance, and maybe that's what attracts Just or Righteous spren or whatever you might call them.  I don't think Zircon fits Jasnah as well, personally, and I think it might have been there because the Zircon Herald has something to do with Shadesmar, specifically.

Stormblessed

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2010, 02:19:15 AM »
In chapter 18 - Highprince of War - it isn't Shallash (I can't work out who it is as i dont have a US edition of WoK). However in chapter 69 - Justice - she is in it. But while these chapters both have Elhokar in them, I do not know if those Heralds correspond with him or someone else.
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ROSHtafARian

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2010, 02:24:53 AM »
Hmm, well I can't think of anyone else who shares chapters with Elkohar who would fit the same mold as Shalash/Shallan with the exception of Navani.  And I don't think she has any potential Radiant powers, but she is creative and honest, so maybe it could still be her...except I don't remember her being in that chapter.

My gut instinct is that Elkohar's more likely of Shallan's order than Jasnah's, even though he is related to Jasnah.  The attributes just seem more like him, plus he sees the wavy headed spren.

Stormblessed

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2010, 02:39:19 AM »
Navani is in fact in chapter 69 - Justice
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ROSHtafARian

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2010, 02:44:52 AM »
Damn.  It could be referring to her then, because Shalash/Garnet fits Navani a lot better than Elkohar at this point.

Stormblessed

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2010, 02:47:22 AM »
It could also be possible that Elhokar does not soulcast at all, and the line spren he see are similar, but actually different than those seen by Shallan and Jasnah. Note that Shallan and Jasnah probably see different spren as they are from different orders, yet they make no mention of the spren looking different, so maybe some spren just look similar.
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Herald Chapter Pictures--Identities *spoilers*
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2010, 02:50:26 AM »
There is a mistake in the Ars Arcanum. "Learned/Giving" should be switched with "Just/Confident." Just/Confident should go under 2 Nan and Learned/Giving should go under 5 Palah.
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