Author Topic: Magic system based on sound waves?? (minor spoilers)  (Read 3640 times)

Stormblessed

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Magic system based on sound waves?? (minor spoilers)
« on: September 24, 2010, 09:47:20 AM »
This is only an infant thoery, but there are a couple of references to sound waves in tWoK.

Firstly check out C12VT's post on Cymatics. http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=7857.0. Very interesting!

The world of Roshar may have been created from sound waves, or at least parts of Roshar.

Also we know that the Parshendi are connected by their song. They can hum the same tune, even when they are separated. Maybe there is some way that the sound waves connect them. These sound waves may be the difference between Parshendi and Parshmen.

I don't know if this is enough to prove a magic system. If it is, the question is, does this magic system come from the Almighty, or from another shard on Roshar? I'm pretty sure that it's not connected to any magic fuelled by Stormlight, so I am leaning towards the latter.

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Never

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Re: Magic system based on sound waves?? (minor spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2010, 10:11:49 AM »
I think it has something to do with the cognitive realm. The shared song suggests shared thoughts, and we also see sound waves in the writing, which is also a way to share thoughts.

My pet theory is that Shadesmar is somehow moving closer to the physical realm, which is why the placid parshmen will rise 'like a storm' when its close enough for their shared consciousness to develop.

That doesn't suggest a magical system to me though. Actually, it would be helpful if we knew what was magic is for the purpose of the setting. A spren binding your shoelaces together is natural. Janath says that she doesn't believe in the supernatural even as she turns rock to ash with a touch.

Stormblessed

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Re: Magic system based on sound waves?? (minor spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2010, 10:14:52 AM »
That doesn't suggest a magical system to me though. Actually, it would be helpful if we knew what was magic is for the purpose of the setting. A spren binding your shoelaces together is natural. Janath says that she doesn't believe in the supernatural even as she turns rock to ash with a touch.

At the moment there is not much of a magic system linked to sound waves. I define magic system which is something that distorts the rules of physics/science as they are defined in the real world. E.g. Allomancy, Surgebinding, Soulcasting etc.

However, I get the feeling that a magic system may emerge in later books.
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Never

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Re: Magic system based on sound waves?? (minor spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2010, 10:48:30 AM »
A connected consciousness doesn't exist in the real world, but if computers became sufficiently advanced, one could develop. Is it magical or not?

In the real world, chasmfiends don't exist, but if the amount of oxygen in the air were increased and a creature developed a respiratory system more advanced than real world crustaceans, it might. Is it magical or not?

Given the working of the lashings, it's possible that gravity as a force doesn't exist, but that invisible spirits/spren create a weak binding between the ground and other objects. If that's the case, is walking across the floor now magic? 

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Re: Magic system based on sound waves?? (minor spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2010, 10:54:53 AM »
I think it has something to do with the cognitive realm. The shared song suggests shared thoughts, and we also see sound waves in the writing, which is also a way to share thoughts.

My pet theory is that Shadesmar is somehow moving closer to the physical realm, which is why the placid parshmen will rise 'like a storm' when its close enough for their shared consciousness to develop.

That doesn't suggest a magical system to me though. Actually, it would be helpful if we knew what was magic is for the purpose of the setting. A spren binding your shoelaces together is natural. Janath says that she doesn't believe in the supernatural even as she turns rock to ash with a touch.

Exactly one of the themes of the book no? It's an exploration of Clarke's Third Law.

Spren and such are (percieved as) natural parts of the ecology, like any other plant or animal. To her, they're just another aspect of science that is subject to study and research and experimentation.

I'm pretty sure that she wouldn't see soulcasting as particularly "magical" either. She knows there's an explainable, understandable process involved, so to her it's not magic but rather just science that's sufficiently advanced.

Now, whether or not she's wrong in those perceptions is something we have yet to learn. When we know more about how lashings and oathbinding and so forth work, we might be able to make that distinction.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 10:56:50 AM by Inkthinker »

Stormblessed

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Re: Magic system based on sound waves?? (minor spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2010, 03:46:44 PM »
But what is magic, other than a form of science we don't understand. If you tried to teach physics to a man in the middle ages, he would call you a witch.
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Pechvarry

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Re: Magic system based on sound waves?? (minor spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2010, 06:39:28 PM »
And so it's simple to remember that we call it magic because it's a section of science that doesn't exist in the real world.  As a "hard magic" writer, we accept that in Sanderson's worlds, there is no such thing as magic.  And none of this magic definition has anything to do with sound magic.

Since it was said ahead of time that the magics of the world would be based on real physics such as thermodynamics and gravity, I think the sound wave method is a very safe and clever assumption.

Harakeke

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Re: Magic system based on sound waves?? (minor spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2010, 04:11:31 AM »
But what is magic, other than a form of science we don't understand. If you tried to teach physics to a man in the middle ages, he would call you a witch.
I like the definition of magic in the Alcatraz books -- magic is strange things only certain people can do while technology is strange things anyone can do.  On Roshar, Shardblades, fabrials, etc. would be considered technology, while bonding with spren or having visions of the Almighty would be considered magic.

Never

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Re: Magic system based on sound waves?? (minor spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2010, 06:08:00 AM »

Exactly one of the themes of the book no? It's an exploration of Clarke's Third Law.

I wouldn't know if that's one of the themes of the book.

Spren and such are (percieved as) natural parts of the ecology, like any other plant or animal. To her, they're just another aspect of science that is subject to study and research and experimentation.

I'm pretty sure that she wouldn't see soulcasting as particularly "magical" either. She knows there's an explainable, understandable process involved, so to her it's not magic but rather just science that's sufficiently advanced.

Now, whether or not she's wrong in those perceptions is something we have yet to learn. When we know more about how lashings and oathbinding and so forth work, we might be able to make that distinction.

This I agree with. I'd like to know what is natural and why in the world. 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 02:19:00 PM by Never »

Stormblessed

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Re: Magic system based on sound waves?? (minor spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2010, 09:09:25 AM »

Exactly one of the themes of the book no? It's an exploration of Clarke's Third Law.

I wouldn't know if that's one of the themes of the book.

Spren and such are (percieved as) natural parts of the ecology, like any other plant or animal. To her, they're just another aspect of science that is subject to study and research and experimentation.

I'm pretty sure that she wouldn't see soulcasting as particularly "magical" either. She knows there's an explainable, understandable process involved, so to her it's not magic but rather just science that's sufficiently advanced.

Now, whether or not she's wrong in those perceptions is something we have yet to learn. When we know more about how lashings and oathbinding and so forth work, we might be able to make that distinction.

This I agree with. I'd like to know what is natural and why anon the world.
Aons is like a advanced science for Elantrians, yet we still call it magic.
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Never

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Re: Magic system based on sound waves?? (minor spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2010, 02:20:33 PM »
Aons is like a advanced science for Elantrians, yet we still call it magic.

Yes, but we're talking about Way of Kings. I want to know what's considered natural for this world.

Stormblessed

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Re: Magic system based on sound waves?? (minor spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2010, 02:45:43 PM »
I think this is getting quite confusing.

I originally meant magic system from our point of view. That is, something that manipulates the laws of nature in a way that would never be accomplishable in modern day society.

However, if we look at it from the characters perspective, it would be some form of science which only a select few can use and understand. It is where the majority of people believe it is impossible (or at least improbable). Fabriels are seen as science. They are quite possible. But changing gravity will be seen by many as myth and most likely impossible.

For example:
Creating music and sound waves is NOT magic. We can all do it.

But using sound waves to change rock. Or using music as a hive mind. That would be magic.
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 -- Darkeyed Soldier