Author Topic: Truthless  (Read 9331 times)

Erunion

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2010, 05:46:32 PM »
I don't think that there is anything magical in the Oathstone, but just to play Devil's Advocate, I'll bring this point up; it could be that the compulsion is a psychological force, and not a physical force. Perhaps the oathstone amplifies Szeth's sense of honour, or perhaps psychologically makes him act certain ways. His mind simply makes up an excuse for how he is forced to act.

guy

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2010, 05:50:57 PM »
I think if he was compelled that strongly, he wouldnt be able to deny anything asked of him by his owner, including suicide or giving up his shardblade, so I dont think his oathstone is anything but a symbol that he will obey

Miyabi

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2010, 03:33:13 AM »

Not sure if it was mentioned.

You notice how they treat warriors as the lowest of the low?  By taking up a Shardblade as a Stone Shaman who had retrieved one that was lost of the Shin people, he because Truthless.  The most destructive of all warriors and the lowest of them.
オレは長超猿庁じゃ〜。

rjl

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2010, 11:45:42 AM »
I think if he was compelled that strongly, he wouldnt be able to deny anything asked of him by his owner, including suicide or giving up his shardblade, so I dont think his oathstone is anything but a symbol that he will obey
A truthless is commanded to do whatever his current master asks of him other than those two things.

BlueRuin

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2010, 02:24:14 AM »

Not sure if it was mentioned.

You notice how they treat warriors as the lowest of the low?  By taking up a Shardblade as a Stone Shaman who had retrieved one that was lost of the Shin people, he because Truthless.  The most destructive of all warriors and the lowest of them.


I think Szeth was given the Shardblade by his people. At least King Taravangian says so in the "Recorded in Blood" chapter; he says, " Given that monstrosity of a Shardblade by your people, cast out and absolved of any sin your masters might require of you"

The "lowest of the low" line sticks with me. I keep wondering if someone who was considered the lowest of the low could be so highly trained as a warrior. Warriors don't seem to be revered in Shin; would the Shin go to the trouble of creating highly skilled warriors who are no better than slaves? Or was Szeth's training part of being a stone shaman? Szeth says "Even without a Shardblade, he was dangerous, infused with Stormlight and trained in kammar" (Recorded in Blood chapter). What is kammar? Is that a method of fighting?


Miyabi

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2010, 03:24:35 AM »

I think that being a Stone Shaman has something to do with it.  When he says something about them taking the Shardblade from whoever killed him and took it.  So I would imagine he was part of this group, he even says he was a Stone Shaman at one part.  And when eh was involved in that he ended up having to take up the Shardblade.

It could be one of those things that's an honor and a curse at the same time.  The honor of defending your people, but a curse for having to sink so low as to violence and warfare.
オレは長超猿庁じゃ〜。

Stormblessed

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2010, 04:14:11 AM »
The fact that the Stone Shaman will go to lengths to retrieve the shardblade when Szeth dies shows that Szeth's position is ongoing, and there is probably always a truthless one in existence.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
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Morsker

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2010, 05:11:21 AM »
Szeth's punishment requires that Voidbringers don't exist though. So it's in someway unique.

Maybe he was simply supposed to retrieve the sword, bringing it back wrapped in cloth without having to wield it himself, but someone's dying words mentioned the Voidbringers, and the person made Szeth swear to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

Stormblessed

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2010, 09:07:28 AM »
Szeth's punishment requires that Voidbringers don't exist though. So it's in someway unique.

Maybe he was simply supposed to retrieve the sword, bringing it back wrapped in cloth without having to wield it himself, but someone's dying words mentioned the Voidbringers, and the person made Szeth swear to protect those who cannot protect themselves.
This makes sense, as we know that to the Shin, a dying man's words are sacred.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
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FollowYourMuse

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2010, 01:03:35 AM »
The Stone Shamans gave Szeth   the Shardblade, and that they will retreive it,  How do they do this? we also know that he has experience and knowledge of surgebinding and lashings.

 So far all orther surgebinders are associated with Spren in some way, though we see no evidence with Szeth, I wonder if there is a connection to the Stone Shamans? Or they could they be holding a spen similar to the way that the Fabrials do and that is how Szeth has the surgebinding? 

It is curious too that his words on death, living in torture forever, sounds similar to the Heralds in-between desolations.



Munin

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2010, 01:21:08 AM »
So far all orther surgebinders are associated with Spren in some way
"All other surgebinders"?

There's Kaladin and Szeth. That's all we've seen.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Stormblessed

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2010, 01:26:04 AM »
The Stone Shamans gave Szeth   the Shardblade, and that they will retreive it,  How do they do this? we also know that he has experience and knowledge of surgebinding and lashings.

 So far all orther surgebinders are associated with Spren in some way, though we see no evidence with Szeth, I wonder if there is a connection to the Stone Shamans? Or they could they be holding a spen similar to the way that the Fabrials do and that is how Szeth has the surgebinding? 

It is curious too that his words on death, living in torture forever, sounds similar to the Heralds in-between desolations.
Firstly, I think the Stone Shamans just send out the next Truthless candidate to reclaim the shardblade. They will most likely be able to surgebind, which will make it easy for them to kill the shardbearer, especially if he is not prepared for the attack.

Secondly, I reckon that Szeths surgebinding comes from a type of fabriel created by the stone shamans. The spren is imprissoned in the oathstone and that is why Szeth is very connected to this stone.

Lastly, I think that the Shin's idea of death and Hell have come directly from what the Heralds have said, even though they don't believe that the heralds are god-like. They heard from the heralds about the place they go to between desolations, and in time this became incorporated into their teachings of the afterlife.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier

Morsker

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2010, 02:29:20 AM »
I most like the idea of Szeth being so honorable and coincidentally swearing the oaths that he got the Surgebinding power without a spren.

Alternately, maybe he has a deathspren and can't see it, and is completely unaware of it.

BlueRuin

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2010, 03:48:14 AM »
Firstly, I think the Stone Shamans just send out the next Truthless candidate to reclaim the shardblade. They will most likely be able to surgebind, which will make it easy for them to kill the shardbearer, especially if he is not prepared for the attack.

Secondly, I reckon that Szeths surgebinding comes from a type of fabriel created by the stone shamans. The spren is imprissoned in the oathstone and that is why Szeth is very connected to this stone.

Interesting idea about the next Truthless. If that is true, I'm wondering what Thresh meant when he said it was not likely they would have another like Szeth. I took it as there wouldn't be another Truthless; perhaps he meant another with Szeth's particular skills?

On another note -and  I hope this isn't going off topic - could Syl be Szeth's spren as well as Kaladin's? She keeps disappearing throughout the story and doesn't explain where she's going. Perhaps Szeth manages to summon her from time to time and she must go to him. However, you'd think if she was drawn to Kaladin, Szeth would start losing his abilities. I don't know. Just wondering where she goes when she disappears. Maybe she goes to a spren hangout.


Terrisman243

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Re: Truthless
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2010, 05:39:28 AM »
Mistborn spoiler!

Quote
Secondly, I reckon that Szeths surgebinding comes from a type of fabriel created by the stone shamans. The spren is imprissoned in the oathstone and that is why Szeth is very connected to this stone.

I like that idea. It may not be right, but it would be pretty cool. There is ten books worth of magical surprises left. After all, if anyone told you at the end of Mistborn that Sazed was going to be a god, you would think they were crazy!