Author Topic: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*  (Read 23066 times)

ryos

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2010, 05:03:38 AM »
My next question is, what do you do for a living? You sound like some of the linguistics researchers I work with at the BYU English Language Center. (I'm just a webmonkey, so most of their work goes over my head. My consolation is that my work goes over their heads, too. ;))
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CtrlZed

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2010, 05:05:22 AM »
Harakeke--

Thanks for the post. I loved reading about your translation process.

Stormblessed

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2010, 05:11:02 AM »
I think its awesome. Not only creating the language, but also deciphering. Harakeke you are amazing. You make it sound so simple, yet I would have no idea where to start.

P.S. Sorry Peter, didn't mean to leave you out before. I think its definitely a work of art.
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Harakeke

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2010, 05:42:16 AM »
My next question is, what do you do for a living? You sound like some of the linguistics researchers I work with at the BYU English Language Center. (I'm just a webmonkey, so most of their work goes over my head. My consolation is that my work goes over their heads, too. ;))

Stormblessed

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2010, 05:48:59 AM »
My next question is, what do you do for a living? You sound like some of the linguistics researchers I work with at the BYU English Language Center. (I'm just a webmonkey, so most of their work goes over my head. My consolation is that my work goes over their heads, too. ;))


ROFL. You better watch out, or some Parshendi and Alethians might end up cutting out your gemheart.
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2010, 06:24:22 AM »
For instance, the English letter F is written in Alethi as PH...  The similar-looking Alethi letters for T and D seem to be largely interchangeable, while the letter H can have two different forms depending on neighboring consonants. Several letters (j, l, v) are written as another consonant followed by a vowel.  The sequence RI, for instance is nearly identical to LO.
For example, the word fabrial is technically spelled PHABRIARO.

Everything I've quoted above is...wrong. Wow! I'm very impressed that you've managed to come up with an accurate translation while completely misinterpreting one important aspect. :)
All Saiyuki fans should check out Dazzle! Emotionally wrenching action-adventure and quirky humor! (At least read chapter 6 and tell me if you're not hooked.) Volume 10 out now!

Harakeke

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2010, 06:40:18 AM »
Rats!   :) Well, that's what I get for rushing ahead and translating without stopping to grasp the underlying mechanics of the key.  (I kind of suspected I was fudging some of the more difficult letters, and that there should be a more consistent and elegant rule to supersede my hodgepodge of exceptions.)
I'll have to do another pass and work out all the mechanics of the alphabet.   ;D
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 06:45:42 AM by Harakeke »

Terrisman243

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2010, 07:10:25 AM »
This is quite possibly the most epic thing ever. I am amazed.

Harakeke

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2010, 08:24:57 PM »
Oh, of course!  This makes much more sense.


I had overlooked two classes of grapheme: symbol-hash and symbol-double-hash.  Incorporating them into the key makes it much more systematic and eliminates all the clunky letter replacement rules.  (Though in my defense, the symbol-hash combinations do closely resemble a consonant-vowel sequence.)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 08:37:39 PM by Harakeke »

jcats

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2010, 09:59:54 PM »
:o   oh my god... this is soo beautiful and amazing!!!  when i first saw those pages it said oh, so pretty, o, some kinda made-up language and skipped right over them.   to know they have an actual translation... i must copy this to a sticky note, laminate the note, and leave it in the book next to those pages... so epic...

peter, with so much work put into it, do you know if brandon is going to include it in the next book as well?

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2010, 10:04:19 PM »
It will definitely be used in future books.

[EDIT: Nice avatar, Harakeke.]
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 06:47:17 AM by Peter Ahlstrom »
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2010, 10:14:04 PM »
There is no W or X. Other than that and a hash mark size issue, you've got it. The hash marks are diacritics, by the way. The single diacritics on L, H, V, J in your picture are too tall.

Also, H may not quite sound like an H, but it's being used to represent H in English transliteration. There is another kind of H that doesn't appear on either of those pages for reasons you may figure out.

And the letter J is pronounced exactly like Y in modern Alethi. There may have been a sound change involved there. It's being used here as a J sound.

And you're missing something about the first symbol, the one you drew before the E.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 10:31:39 PM by Peter Ahlstrom »
All Saiyuki fans should check out Dazzle! Emotionally wrenching action-adventure and quirky humor! (At least read chapter 6 and tell me if you're not hooked.) Volume 10 out now!

Never

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2010, 09:05:45 PM »
Is it just me, or does this manner of writing seem a bit impractical?

It's also impractical for a Middle Age monk who speaks and writes German to spend a year writing a Bible in Latin and illuminating it with detailed silverpoint drawings. Likewise, Chinese, with its million+ characters, is very impractical.

As I understand it, the preference for symmetry has a theological basis and the average person can't read or write. Instead, it's more the province of noblewomen and religious ardents. The guiding forces for the writing might not be practicality, but aesthetic and religious considerations.

Stormblessed

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2010, 02:20:22 AM »
Is it just me, or does this manner of writing seem a bit impractical?

This is probably a special way of writing. Your everyday girl (men don't write unless their ardents) writes in a normal language like in Shallan's journal.  This writing is probably a more formal way of writing. Remember Jasnah holds prejudices against Shallan's way of writing, which may be shared by her mother (they do seem kind of close).
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Erunion

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Re: WOK: Navani's Notebook Translation *MAJOR SPOILERS*
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2010, 05:56:49 AM »
There are two writing styles, there are the basic glyphs which convey basic information, but don't seem capable of conveying complex ideas. Everyone with an education knows these (but not lower class/lower middle class).
The second type of writing is the type shown here, and only females and Ardents are cultural allowed to learn it, as it is considered an art form. (Note how in Shallan's 3rd or so chapter, she writes a letter to Jasnah and uses her brushpen as the letter is supposed to be "a work of art") It is a very artsy, pretty written language but is a complete written language capable of conveying complex ideas. Only the well-educated (Kaladin's mom knows it, ardents know it, noblewomen know it) learn it.