Author Topic: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.  (Read 3354 times)

Kykeon

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Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« on: September 13, 2010, 06:17:38 PM »
Okay, let me make a few bold speculations.
First, let's look at a few bits of information.
1) The Knights radient were surgebinders.
2) The figure that Kaladin's  stopped flight did so while claiming  that "The oathpact" was broken.
3) When the Knights radient gave up, their amor and blades faded and lost their Glyphs.
4) Shalan and Jasna are both people who can perform feats that are also possible with fabriels.
5) Syl finds Shards distasteful.
My conclusions are the following: The glyphs on the knights armor are a the representation of a contract between Humans and Spren.
When the Knights Radient abandoned their post, this contract became void, which made the shine of armor and swords fade.
Due to this, Shards only perform  basic functions, without granting "flight"  or other, more "fancy" powers.
Syl is revolted by shards because they remind her of the Knight's disloyalty.

So much for now.
Thoughts?

Munin

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Re: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2010, 07:33:47 PM »
Actually, only one order of the Radiants were Surgebinders. The Windrunners, I believe.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Salkara

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Re: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2010, 08:14:53 PM »
I get the feeling that Shardblades and Shardplate were tainted in some way by "the enemy," which caused the Knights Radiant to discontinue using them and also causes the distaste that Syl and Kaladin have for the items.

ashaman33

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Re: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2010, 08:22:30 PM »
Okay, let me make a few bold speculations.
First, let's look at a few bits of information.
1) The Knights radient were surgebinders.
2) The figure that Kaladin's  stopped flight did so while claiming  that "The oathpact" was broken.
3) When the Knights radient gave up, their amor and blades faded and lost their Glyphs.
4) Shalan and Jasna are both people who can perform feats that are also possible with fabriels.
5) Syl finds Shards distasteful.
My conclusions are the following: The glyphs on the knights armor are a the representation of a contract between Humans and Spren.
When the Knights Radient abandoned their post, this contract became void, which made the shine of armor and swords fade.
Due to this, Shards only perform  basic functions, without granting "flight"  or other, more "fancy" powers.
Syl is revolted by shards because they remind her of the Knight's disloyalty.

So much for now.
Thoughts?





Maybe the Radiants quit because humans enslaved the Parshmen? Maybe Odium was involved somehow? Maybe it is impossible to win with Shardblades and humans  will need to recover the Dawnshards.

Ashaman

rjl

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Re: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2010, 11:48:22 PM »
Actually, only one order of the Radiants were Surgebinders. The Windrunners, I believe.
The Ars Arcanum said that WIndrunners used two primary types of surgebinding, implying that there are other sorts of surgebinding, perhaps some of the other orders of radiants employed said other types.

Kykeon

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Re: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2010, 07:34:50 AM »
I guess I shouldn't have been so hasty in typing that...
Yes, there was only one order of windrunners, and I think those are the ones that bear the Glyphs and are seeing falling from the sky in the Vision about the beginning of a desolation, and the one about the knights giving up.
I'm tired lately, so please excuse my incoherence.  :-[

Ari54

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Re: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2010, 09:29:38 AM »
Actually, only one order of the Radiants were Surgebinders. The Windrunners, I believe.
The Ars Arcanum said that WIndrunners used two primary types of surgebinding, implying that there are other sorts of surgebinding, perhaps some of the other orders of radiants employed said other types.

Or it could just imply that Surgebinding divides neatly in two, and that secondary types of surgebinding rely on cooperation between the two orders of Surgebinders. :)

Salkara

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Re: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2010, 04:42:12 PM »
Actually, only one order of the Radiants were Surgebinders. The Windrunners, I believe.

Do you have a quote on this one? Because I'm inclined to think that Surgebinding simply means using Stormlight to fuel your particular system of magic.

guy

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Re: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2010, 08:47:27 PM »
well if shard plate/blades can disapear when the owner does not need them, i suspect that would imply that they exist in more than one realm of the cosmere, so perhaps the reason that they aren't working the way they do in the visions with the radiants is because people lack the ability to access them in all three realms.

Random112

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Re: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2010, 11:08:27 PM »

Could it be that the Oathpact was an end to the war between the Knight's Radiant and the Voidbringers? Maybe the Voidbringer's gave up their powers to become parshmen/parshendi ( in texts, it seems they have powers of some kind, whereas modern parshendi have inherent traits but no mystical powers, they even use Shardplate/Blades ) and the Knight's Radiant had to agree to disband and give up their Shardblades/Shardplate.

Maybe Syl is revolted by the Blades and Plate because it reminds her of the Oathpact they were forced to accept to get rid of the Voidbringer threat?

Okay, let me make a few bold speculations.
First, let's look at a few bits of information.
1) The Knights radient were surgebinders.
2) The figure that Kaladin's  stopped flight did so while claiming  that "The oathpact" was broken.
3) When the Knights radient gave up, their amor and blades faded and lost their Glyphs.
4) Shalan and Jasna are both people who can perform feats that are also possible with fabriels.
5) Syl finds Shards distasteful.
My conclusions are the following: The glyphs on the knights armor are a the representation of a contract between Humans and Spren.
When the Knights Radient abandoned their post, this contract became void, which made the shine of armor and swords fade.
Due to this, Shards only perform  basic functions, without granting "flight"  or other, more "fancy" powers.
Syl is revolted by shards because they remind her of the Knight's disloyalty.

So much for now.
Thoughts?


guy

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Re: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2010, 06:48:57 PM »
that does make a lot of sense, but why would odium give up the voidbringers when 9 of the heralds have already quit, and that theory doesn't explain why the radiants seemed to disappear, besides it seemed like the radiants tried to take over the world rather than just disbanding, maybe since they were not being watched over by the heralds odium was able to take control of them.

Random112

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Re: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2010, 06:56:34 PM »
Because maybe the voidbringers were defeated by the time most of the heralds had quit? And I'm not sure whose theory you're responding to, because mine accounts for the disappearance of the Knights Radiant.

And I'm not saying you're wrong, but where does it say the Knights Radiant tried to take over the world? I thought they were just knocked for abandoning the world?

that does make a lot of sense, but why would odium give up the voidbringers when 9 of the heralds have already quit, and that theory doesn't explain why the radiants seemed to disappear, besides it seemed like the radiants tried to take over the world rather than just disbanding, maybe since they were not being watched over by the heralds odium was able to take control of them.

guy

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Re: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2010, 07:05:37 PM »
oh yeah you're right, i mixed up the radiants with the heirocracy, my mistake

Stormblessed

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Re: Kykeon's theory on Shards, The oathpact and surgebinding.
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2010, 11:21:50 AM »
From the prelude, we know that the Knights Radiants existed after the Last Desolation when the Oathpact was broken. Maybe without the voidbringers, the humans started fighting among themselves, using the Knights Radiant as their army. The Knights were sick and tired of being reduced to the status of hired mercenaries for kings from being saviours of the world and decided to let the kings fight their own battles.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
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