WoK: Kaladin and Syl *Spoilers*

[VegasDev]

Just wanted to add this excerpt from Dalinars vision of the Radiants discarding their blades and armor:

Dalinar reached the Shardblades. They sprouted from the rock like glittering silver trees, a forest of weapons. They glowed softly in a way his own Shardblade never had, but as he dashed among them, their light started to fade.

A terrible feeling struck him. A sense of immense tragedy, of pain and betrayal. Stopping where he stood, he gasped, hand to his chest. What was happening? What was the dreadful feeling, that screaming he swore he could almost hear?

[guy]

that screaming could come from the spren going back to mindless pranksters, it certainly implies that the cause of the glowing is the bond with the spren

[Galavantes]

whose ideas of honor do honorspren follow, because honor is different from one culture to the next, is there one universal way that honorspren adhere to, or is it completely up to the individual

Syl specifically wants Kaladin to speak the words from the Way of Kings. The code of honor followed by the knights radiant. I think there is enough in-world evidence that we can be pretty safe using those codes as the benchmark.

[BackBlast]

Anyone else have the suspicion that Syl will be key to Kaladin getting a Dawnblade? I'm basing this on some information without much flesh, but here's the evidence I see:

1. In the prologue, it's mentioned that the Herald's blade was more "pure" than a Shardblade.
2. Kaladin has an aversion to Shardblades
3. Syl also has an aversion to Shardblades
4. Syl states at one point that even though she abhors killing, she remembers helping it happen before

So, I think Kaladin and Syl dislike Shardblades for the same reason: they aren't "pure." The line about Syl helping kill tells me that she has something to do with acquiring a "pure" sword. Maybe she leads him to one, or maybe she becomes a sword. Who knows.

At the very least, this could help explain why Szeth doesn't have a honorspren following him around. He carries a Shardblade, and his honorspren finds it so dishonorable that he/she won't be around him.

The shardblades do indeed seem tainted after some fashion.  Syl and Kaladin are both revolted by them.  Most honorable characters are not particularly fond of them to varying degrees, Szeth, Shalan, Gavilar.

As for Kaladin obtaining some equipment to accompany his powers, it's certainly possible.  There is a passing reference to "honor blades" which I believe was right next to a dawnshard reference from one of the historical text citations.  I believe that sounds like a good candidate I think.

[EvilNuff]

The Surgebinders didn't use plate,  although they probably used blade. They didn't because, as it says on page 29 in the hardcover (end of the page): "His Lashings interfered with the gemstones that powered Shardplate, and he had to choose one or the other."

We only know that Szeth does not use the shardplate of modern time.  However, we also know through multiple references that shadplate from Dalinars visions was different/more and that when left by the Radiants it lost its glow.  We also know that surgebinders used shardplate and lashed themselves while in it directly from the visions.  See numerous references to Radiants falling from the sky or floating up.

[Andrew the Great]

I'm wondering if it would be possible for Radiants to power the Shardplate themselves. After all, the primary purpose of the gems (at least this is how I read it) is to provide Stormlight for the Plate. Theoretically, this is why Szeth's surgebinding interferes with it. He pulls the Stormlight out of the gems and the Shardplate has no power source.

If he were to consciously feed Stormlight into the Plate at a slow rate, though, I can see that working. Maybe that's what was what the Radiants originally did, and the gems were just there for them to continue to renew their supply of Stormlight. Like batteries.

[andygal]

I'm wondering if it would be possible for Radiants to power the Shardplate themselves. After all, the primary purpose of the gems (at least this is how I read it) is to provide Stormlight for the Plate. Theoretically, this is why Szeth's surgebinding interferes with it. He pulls the Stormlight out of the gems and the Shardplate has no power source.

If he were to consciously feed Stormlight into the Plate at a slow rate, though, I can see that working. Maybe that's what was what the Radiants originally did, and the gems were just there for them to continue to renew their supply of Stormlight. Like batteries.

[ThreadNecro]
I think this this an excellent theory. I approve of this theory.

Also, I think the Honorblades are the Herald's uber-Shardblades. 9 of which are probably still  stuck somewhere or other, and one of which was last seen lying next to it's unconscious owner. (he ain't dead, cause Brandon sez he gets an expanded role later and he can't if he's dead. )

(edited to fix highly-unfortunate typo)

[Melriken]

Also, I think the Honorblades are the Herald's uber-Shardblades. 9 of which are probably still  stuck somewhere or other, and one of which was last seen lying next to it's unconscious owner. (he ain't dead, cause Brandon sez he gets an expanded role later and he can't if he's dead. )

(edited to fix highly-unfortunate typo)

He dies in the first chapter, is refered to as "having a tendency to choose seemingly hopeless fights and win them. He also had a tendency to die in the process." and shows up in the last chapter, only to die (we know he dies because his blade drops to the ground).  What gives you the idea that death does much more then slow the Heralds down?

More on-topic I think that there are two sources of blades.

1 - The Parshendi source (Odium) which is the source of Voidshards.
2 - The Knights Radiant source (Almighty) which is the source of Dawnshards.

From the second to last chapter we have the quotes:

(The Almighty speaking (Page 997 of the original hard back))
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. Speak again the ancient oaths and return to men the Shards they once bore.

(The Almighty speaking (Page 997 of the original hard back))You might be able to get him to choose a champion. He is bound by some rules. All of us are. A champion could work well for you, but it is not certain. And ... without the Dawnshards ... Well, I have done what I can. It is a terrible, terrible thing to leave you alone.

It is possible that the Swords of the Heralds are the Dawnshards, but I don't get that impression (though I checked and we don't get a name for the words of the Heralds, just a comment about them being "weapons of power beyond even Shardblades".

I think Syl would have no problem with a Dawnshard, it is only Voidshards that feel wrong to her.

I would also like to point out the existence of Shardbearers among the Parshendi, both Blade and Plate, and that when those Blades or Plate are captured that none of the Alethi can tell the difference between them and the Blades/Plate that they have.

We also know that during the previous Desolation there were thousands of Knights Radiant (10 orders of 200-300), each with a Blade and likely Plate, yet in modern times there are maybe 100 of each. I postulate that ALL the Dawnshards are missing, and the 100 or so Shardblades that are around 'today' are all Voidshards, captured from the Voidbringers during Desolations.

[andygal]

Also, I think the Honorblades are the Herald's uber-Shardblades. 9 of which are probably still  stuck somewhere or other, and one of which was last seen lying next to it's unconscious owner. (he ain't dead, cause Brandon sez he gets an expanded role later and he can't if he's dead. )

(edited to fix highly-unfortunate typo)

He dies in the first chapter, is refered to as "having a tendency to choose seemingly hopeless fights and win them. He also had a tendency to die in the process." and shows up in the last chapter, only to die (we know he dies because his blade drops to the ground).  What gives you the idea that death does much more then slow the Heralds down?

we're meant to THINK he's dead, but I'm pretty sure the Herald's Blades work differently then regular Shardblades.
from the prelude, talking about the swords in the ring, "if their masters had died, the Blades would have vanished."

So I think he didn't actually die, he's just unconscious.

[Tortellini]

we're meant to THINK he's dead, but I'm pretty sure the Herald's Blades work differently then regular Shardblades.
from the prelude, talking about the swords in the ring, "if their masters had died, the Blades would have vanished."

So I think he didn't actually die, he's just unconscious.

Exactly, the prelude is pretty clear on this. The blade remaining is actually proof that he is still alive. Why these blades are the exact opposite of normal Shardblades in that regard is an interesting question, but we don't have anything to go on for now.

[socom-delta]

My theory is that it's related to what I've come to call Geranid's Certainty Principle. Namely, that measuring an attribute of a spren (and recording that measurement) fixes said attribute for as long as the record stands. Kaladin serves as caliper and record for Syl. Remember when she left him, and almost lost herself? Somehow, he is measuring her, and she evolves along with his "record" of her attributes.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the blatantly obvious parallel to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, from modern Quantum Mechanics.

Basically the idea is that a particle can be in any one of eight different states UNLESS you actually measure it - then it is DEFINITELY in one state. But until it's measured, it can be in any one of those eight states (or perhaps even eight at once?).

There are already working computers that take advantage of this theory. Things that shouldn't work... and yet they do.

-e-

I got Heisenberg mixed up with Schroedinger

[andygal]

Brandon's also borrowing from quantum theory with the spanreeds,the way they work is  based on quantum entanglement, where you can split a particle and the two resulting particles will be connected and what you do to one will have effects on the other.

[CabbyHat]

My theory is that it's related to what I've come to call Geranid's Certainty Principle. Namely, that measuring an attribute of a spren (and recording that measurement) fixes said attribute for as long as the record stands. Kaladin serves as caliper and record for Syl. Remember when she left him, and almost lost herself? Somehow, he is measuring her, and she evolves along with his "record" of her attributes.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the blatantly obvious parallel to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, from modern Quantum Mechanics.

Basically the idea is that a particle can be in any one of eight different states UNLESS you actually measure it - then it is DEFINITELY in one state. But until it's measured, it can be in any one of those eight states (or perhaps even eight at once?).

There are already working computers that take advantage of this theory. Things that shouldn't work... and yet they do.

-e-

I got Heisenberg mixed up with Schroedinger

Schrodinger's Flamespren?

[happyman]

My theory is that it's related to what I've come to call Geranid's Certainty Principle. Namely, that measuring an attribute of a spren (and recording that measurement) fixes said attribute for as long as the record stands. Kaladin serves as caliper and record for Syl. Remember when she left him, and almost lost herself? Somehow, he is measuring her, and she evolves along with his "record" of her attributes.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the blatantly obvious parallel to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, from modern Quantum Mechanics.

Basically the idea is that a particle can be in any one of eight different states UNLESS you actually measure it - then it is DEFINITELY in one state. But until it's measured, it can be in any one of those eight states (or perhaps even eight at once?).

There are already working computers that take advantage of this theory. Things that shouldn't work... and yet they do.

-e-

I got Heisenberg mixed up with Schroedinger

Why stick with just eight states?  For unbound systems, there is an infinite continuum of states a particle can be in, and which it will be in is somewhat undetermined until a measurement is actually made!

Heck, even for bound states, there are usually a countably infinite number of states.  (And even then, the discrete energies is really only an approximation.  Everything you learn about physics is a progressively less flagrant lie until you get past the graduate level courses into the real literature.)

However, the parallel to the Uncertainty principle is quite obvious, that is for sure!  Not sure how it's going to play out, but I believe Brandon has said it's pretty important.

As for working computers... technically we have them.  If you're willing to pay a few million bucks to factorize 15, you can indeed have a quantum computer.  Practical quantum computers?  No.

[andygal]

However, the parallel to the Uncertainty principle is quite obvious, that is for sure!  Not sure how it's going to play out, but I believe Brandon has said it's pretty important.

any citations on that? Just curious. Cause it's really interesting.