Author Topic: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)  (Read 5372 times)

sortitus

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2010, 07:10:26 PM »
This topic has ever so quickly left the straight and narrow of on topicness and has veered into the wild, wild wastes of mind screwdom.  And it took, what, three, four posts?  Dang, you might as well have invoked Gamespren on us!
I do not know this Gamespren (Is he like game hen?). I do, however, know what happened. I was there. Or here. The place where the event you are referencing took place.

Andynasalyum was exploded, and the shard of on-topicness was absorbed by the Jade Knight. Without his presence, this thread is doomed to wander the banal reaches of madness until either Munin remembers what we were talking about before I was sidetracked or I'm cured of my shardiness.

The real question here is why am I the one that's creating all of this chaos? Shouldn't Chaos do that? Or little wilson? I mean, this kind of thing isn't remotely covered in my job description. Then again, the fact that I'm doing the unexpected means that I'm actually doing my job very well.

I would like to take this opportunity to plug pie. Pie is very delicious and good for you if you have nothing more healthy and delicious on hand. It is worthy of a plug. Sometimes it is kinda runny, so a plug is good and necessary, though I don't think that a pie plug has been invented yet. I just invented it. It is two pieces of plastic that are each the radius of your pie pan/tin/platter, connected by a waterproof hinge, and having soft plastic like windshield wipers on the edges that touch the container. Also, the edge that goes next to the slanting outside of the container will be contoured to fit perfectly. As you cut and serve your pie, merely place the plug in the void that was once occupied (har) by your eaten slices and expand it to fit the angle needed to plug the runoff.

I would put something on-topic here, but it would seem like sacrilege.
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좋아! This time with more ecstatic! 좋네!!! I'll say it again in french! Trois fois voiture!!! Ça va. C'est vrai. C'est bien.
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Ari54

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2010, 01:31:00 AM »
So, back on topic...

Quote
It's still pretty tenuous, but I suppose it's the best we've got.  It just seems so hard to know where the Shard's referenced were, given that both Hoid and the recipient already know the background information.

Definitely. And complicating matters is the fact that--if Odium went to Sel prior to the events of Elantris--we don't really know what "Splintered" means, which makes it even harder to discern what Shard does what on that world.

I thought Brandon referred to the Returned in Warbreaker as Splinters in one of his interviews?

happyman

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2010, 03:21:25 PM »
So, back on topic...

Quote
It's still pretty tenuous, but I suppose it's the best we've got.  It just seems so hard to know where the Shard's referenced were, given that both Hoid and the recipient already know the background information.

Definitely. And complicating matters is the fact that--if Odium went to Sel prior to the events of Elantris--we don't really know what "Splintered" means, which makes it even harder to discern what Shard does what on that world.

I thought Brandon referred to the Returned in Warbreaker as Splinters in one of his interviews?

Not just returned, I think.  I also believe the Lord Ruler and Vin were Splinters.

This is especially interesting in Warbreaker because as far as we can tell, Endowment is still active.
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Ari54

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2010, 04:27:06 AM »
I thought he referred to Vin and TLR as Shards, not Splinters though?

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2010, 05:13:55 AM »
Lord-Ruler referred to himself as a "Splinter of Divinity", no?

The idea of Seons as splinters gaining consciousness makes me think about Nightblood -- perhaps that much breath to awaken a sword is effectively ripping a splinter off Endowment.  Temporarily damming the river where normal awakenings are more like dipping a bucket in.

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2010, 05:14:52 AM »
Lord-Ruler referred to himself as a "Splinter of Divinity", no?
Sliver of Infinity, actually.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Tangletalon

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2010, 02:00:49 PM »
So when were the shards splintered? Sazed had  both of them.

Munin

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2010, 02:42:40 PM »
So when were the shards splintered? Sazed had  both of them.
Those two weren't. Aona and Skaze were killed by Odium, not Ati and Leras.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

happyman

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2010, 03:51:02 PM »
Lord-Ruler referred to himself as a "Splinter of Divinity", no?

The idea of Seons as splinters gaining consciousness makes me think about Nightblood -- perhaps that much breath to awaken a sword is effectively ripping a splinter off Endowment.  Temporarily damming the river where normal awakenings are more like dipping a bucket in.

Well, something is up with that sword.  It baffled Vasher why he (gender used simply for convenience) had any personality at all.  Something odd happened during its creation.  It's almost like a new creation, akin to creating a human.  Akin to creating a child.

Since God Kings apparently can create children (from Brandon via Peter, I think), maybe this is related.
Nature hates being reified.

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2010, 04:14:09 PM »
Lord-Ruler referred to himself as a "Splinter of Divinity", no?

The idea of Seons as splinters gaining consciousness makes me think about Nightblood -- perhaps that much breath to awaken a sword is effectively ripping a splinter off Endowment.  Temporarily damming the river where normal awakenings are more like dipping a bucket in.

Well, something is up with that sword.  It baffled Vasher why he (gender used simply for convenience) had any personality at all.  Something odd happened during its creation.  It's almost like a new creation, akin to creating a human.  Akin to creating a child.

Since God Kings apparently can create children (from Brandon via Peter, I think), maybe this is related.

I took Nightblood more to be an example of "if you put enough Breaths into something you can permanently Awaken it." With a sword (which isn't very much like a human body) it took 1,000 Breaths to Awaken; the result was Nightblood. With a dead human body (which is very much like a human body) it takes 1 Breath to Awaken; the result is a Lifeless.

happyman

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2010, 07:33:33 PM »
Lord-Ruler referred to himself as a "Splinter of Divinity", no?

The idea of Seons as splinters gaining consciousness makes me think about Nightblood -- perhaps that much breath to awaken a sword is effectively ripping a splinter off Endowment.  Temporarily damming the river where normal awakenings are more like dipping a bucket in.

Well, something is up with that sword.  It baffled Vasher why he (gender used simply for convenience) had any personality at all.  Something odd happened during its creation.  It's almost like a new creation, akin to creating a human.  Akin to creating a child.

Since God Kings apparently can create children (from Brandon via Peter, I think), maybe this is related.

I took Nightblood more to be an example of "if you put enough Breaths into something you can permanently Awaken it." With a sword (which isn't very much like a human body) it took 1,000 Breaths to Awaken; the result was Nightblood. With a dead human body (which is very much like a human body) it takes 1 Breath to Awaken; the result is a Lifeless.

This isn't a bad idea, but there are lots of things in the world that are more human than a metal sword, which should be able to be permanently awakened with less effort in this theory.  They would be awfully useful to have around too; a very practical discovery.  Brandon doesn't show us any, though.  Not only does he not show us any, but the person who comments on Nightblood's status-Vasher-is an expert on the subject of Awakening, as much as experts exist in his world.  No, I think something more is going on with Nightblood.  Something very unusual happened when that sword awoke.
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Stormblessed

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2010, 08:54:32 AM »
Lord-Ruler referred to himself as a "Splinter of Divinity", no?

The idea of Seons as splinters gaining consciousness makes me think about Nightblood -- perhaps that much breath to awaken a sword is effectively ripping a splinter off Endowment.  Temporarily damming the river where normal awakenings are more like dipping a bucket in.

Well, something is up with that sword.  It baffled Vasher why he (gender used simply for convenience) had any personality at all.  Something odd happened during its creation.  It's almost like a new creation, akin to creating a human.  Akin to creating a child.

Since God Kings apparently can create children (from Brandon via Peter, I think), maybe this is related.

I took Nightblood more to be an example of "if you put enough Breaths into something you can permanently Awaken it." With a sword (which isn't very much like a human body) it took 1,000 Breaths to Awaken; the result was Nightblood. With a dead human body (which is very much like a human body) it takes 1 Breath to Awaken; the result is a Lifeless.

This isn't a bad idea, but there are lots of things in the world that are more human than a metal sword, which should be able to be permanently awakened with less effort in this theory.  They would be awfully useful to have around too; a very practical discovery.  Brandon doesn't show us any, though.  Not only does he not show us any, but the person who comments on Nightblood's status-Vasher-is an expert on the subject of Awakening, as much as experts exist in his world.  No, I think something more is going on with Nightblood.  Something very unusual happened when that sword awoke.

Maybe Nightblood and the Returned are splinters of another shard closely related to Endowment. Endowment was obviously still alive after nightblood and returned were created (Lightsong hears the 'voice') so it can't be shattered. However, maybe endowment splintered another shard and uses the splinters to create returned (which is why there are no returned before a specific time). When Shashara created Nightblood, maybe she unknowningly stole one of the splinters from Endowment to create Nightblood.

This raises the question of whether Endownment is bad. Maybe he is the mysterious Bavadin we have heard about, who Hoid has a grudge against. Or maybe the shard he splintered was a corrupted shard allied with Rayse and it was in the best interests of humanity to splinter it.
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Omelethead

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2010, 11:39:18 PM »
Why would Odium splinter Aona and Skai's shards? Why not take them for himself?

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2010, 11:43:59 PM »
Why would Odium splinter Aona and Skai's shards? Why not take them for himself?
Probably because he couldn't use them, much like Ruin couldn't use Preservation's.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

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Re: Shards (Elantris and WoK spoilers)
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2010, 08:06:48 AM »
Why would Odium splinter Aona and Skai's shards? Why not take them for himself?
Probably because he couldn't use them, much like Ruin couldn't use Preservation's.

So what makes Sazed so special that he can use both? Is it because he has not been corrupted totally by one shard? Maybe when Ruin first got the shard (back when he was a nice guy) he would have been able to take preservations shard as well, but he was too good a guy. But after years of holding one shard, it corrupted him so much that he could no longer hold preservation, it would conflict with his whole sense of being. (I know, i just answered my own question  :-[)
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