Author Topic: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*  (Read 15301 times)

guy

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2010, 07:57:08 PM »
that doesnt explain the parshendi, but it is a really good idea, and i have been hoping that all of the heralds are still around, i was actually hoping that the interlude characters were the heralds, or some of them were.

Stormblessed

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2010, 05:04:48 AM »
that doesnt explain the parshendi, but it is a really good idea, and i have been hoping that all of the heralds are still around, i was actually hoping that the interlude characters were the heralds, or some of them were.

The parshendi are just those parshman that have already been activiated into 'voidbringer' mode. Taln may have given up years ago, but it may have taken years for him to finally manifest on Roshar. I have a theory on another post which pretty much says that the strange things that people are saying when they're about to die are related to Taln's soul trying to get back on Roshar. Notice how alot of the quotes somehow focus on Taln or the heralds. Since these events started happening the same time the parshendi appeared, this might be when Taln finally broke under the torture and tried to escape/return to Roshar.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier

Cheese Ninja

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2010, 07:07:52 PM »
that doesnt explain the parshendi, but it is a really good idea, and i have been hoping that all of the heralds are still around, i was actually hoping that the interlude characters were the heralds, or some of them were.

The parshendi are just those parshman that have already been activiated into 'voidbringer' mode. Taln may have given up years ago, but it may have taken years for him to finally manifest on Roshar. I have a theory on another post which pretty much says that the strange things that people are saying when they're about to die are related to Taln's soul trying to get back on Roshar. Notice how alot of the quotes somehow focus on Taln or the heralds. Since these events started happening the same time the parshendi appeared, this might be when Taln finally broke under the torture and tried to escape/return to Roshar.

Parshendi don't seem quite as simple as "parshmen activated into voidbringer' mode", they seem to have too much society and culture, and if their only goal was the destruction of the other races, they aren't going about it in a very effective way.  Really, only one quote seems to focus on Taln, one on the Heralds, and 1 that looks like it might on Heralds or Radiants (you went with Heralds).  I suppose you could credit a few vague ones with them, but it's far from definite. 

Did the Parshendi not start growing armor until after they started battling on the Shattered Plains?  I don't see it mentioned in the books Shallan was reading or by Dalinar when Jasnah asked him to retell the story of their first encounter with the Parshendi, even though they mention their high quality weaponry in both places.

I wonder if Thresh traded Szeth directly to the Parshendi, or if there were more trades between.  How exactly did Szeth know that the end of the world was coming soon back in the Prologue?  These last two things might be unrelated.

MissGnomer

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2010, 09:43:06 PM »
I have a wild theory.

The Heralds entered into an oathpact which basically helps stop the voidbringers from taking over, but we have no idea what it is.

From what I have thought about, I think the oathpact basically states that the Heralds will fight the voidbringers on Roshar using a splinter from one of the shards (whether or not it is the Almighty or another shard I don't know) which is physically manifested in the dawnshard. But once the desolation is over they must go to this mysterious other place (Shadesmar possibly) and endur years of torture, in which that time the voidbringers are powerless, mindless creatures known as parshmen. But after some time the Heralds can no longer take the torture and return to Roshar, at which time the voidbringers come again, they fight, they win and return for more torture in an endless cycle.

Talenel has thus failed because he finally cracked under the torture and the voidbringers are returning for another desolation.

***

Completely separate, I think the Heralds that gave up on the Oathpact are still alive. When I read the prelude all those months ago I was under the impression that the Heralds could only be killed, not die from natural deaths, and their dawnshards are untouchable by anyone but them, just sitting there waiting for them to return and claim their blades. However I have no proof for this other than making a nice story.

Ooh, that's really good.  Why else would the Heralds agree to torture, if not for the sake of Roshar?  If your theory is correct, when one Herald cracks, do they all come back...??  How could Taln have lasted 4500 years?

Munin

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2010, 01:01:24 AM »
I have a wild theory.

The Heralds entered into an oathpact which basically helps stop the voidbringers from taking over, but we have no idea what it is.

From what I have thought about, I think the oathpact basically states that the Heralds will fight the voidbringers on Roshar using a splinter from one of the shards (whether or not it is the Almighty or another shard I don't know) which is physically manifested in the dawnshard. But once the desolation is over they must go to this mysterious other place (Shadesmar possibly) and endur years of torture, in which that time the voidbringers are powerless, mindless creatures known as parshmen. But after some time the Heralds can no longer take the torture and return to Roshar, at which time the voidbringers come again, they fight, they win and return for more torture in an endless cycle.

Talenel has thus failed because he finally cracked under the torture and the voidbringers are returning for another desolation.
There's more than one Dawnshard, since the Almighty uses the word as a plural.
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

Stormblessed

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2010, 11:20:35 AM »
Ooh, that's really good.  Why else would the Heralds agree to torture, if not for the sake of Roshar?  If your theory is correct, when one Herald cracks, do they all come back...??  How could Taln have lasted 4500 years?

Maybe time in "Hell" (as I will call it for lack of a better word) is different from Roshar time. So while 4500 years passed on Roshar, maybe less time passed in 'Hell'.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier

lordofsoup

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2010, 02:16:32 PM »
There are people in Roshar that live a ridiculously long time.  There was that weird scholar dude, who could change his skin color that was immortal beyond normal people. 

Munin

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2010, 04:37:22 PM »
There are people in Roshar that live a ridiculously long time.  There was that weird scholar dude, who could change his skin color that was immortal beyond normal people. 
Maybe Axies is a Knowledgespren!
There's a difference between what's best and what's right. What's best might be different tomorrow or the day after, but right and wrong will stay the same after a thousand years.

guy

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2010, 05:28:15 PM »
axies is kind of strange, it seems like he had already been alive for centuries, and the prospect of living a few more didnt seem to bother him, and i highly doubt that his entire race was able to live that long or there would be a lot more around

Never

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2010, 08:36:37 PM »
The parshendi are just those parshman that have already been activiated into 'voidbringer' mode.

The Parshendi are intelligent Parshman, but we don't know if they're completely into voidbringer mode. Several times, they're called creatures of ash and flame. Jasnah thinks this is because their description has become more fantastical over the millennium, but we also have death quotes where they're described as burning/flaming.


Cheese Ninja

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2010, 07:53:12 AM »
Oh, I came up with a funny/dumb theory about Shalash's missing statue in the prologue.  It works though, assuming that the Heralds are immortal and have powers beyond the average person.
Quote
Szeth left the feasting chamber behind. Just outside, he passed the doorway into the Beggars’ Feast. It was an Alethi tradition, a room where some of the poorest men and women in the city were given a feast complementing that of the king and his guests. A man with a long grey and black beard slumped in the doorway, smiling foolishly—though whether from wine or a weak mind, Szeth could not tell.
“Have you seen me?” the man asked with slurred speech. He laughed, then began to speak in gibberish, reaching for a wineskin. So it was drink after all. Szeth brushed by, continuing past a line of statues depicting the Ten Heralds from ancient Vorin theology. Jezerezeh, Ishi, Kelek, Talenelat. He counted off each one, and realized there were only nine here. One was conspicuously missing. Why had Shalash’s statue been removed? King Gavilar was said to be very devout in his Vorin worship. Too devout, by some people’s standards.

The drunk guy is actually Shalash, and he got rid of his statue using his Heraldic powers because he thought it would be a good practical joke.  He's not actually speaking in gibberish, just a language unknown to Szeth.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 07:56:13 AM by Cheese Ninja »

Kykeon

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2010, 09:43:04 AM »
After such a long time, you have to be a little bit queer.
I like your theory CN.
The one about the suffering of the heralds bindig the voidbringers makes a lot of sense too.

Kykeon

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2010, 09:47:48 AM »
The parshendi are just those parshman that have already been activiated into 'voidbringer' mode.

The Parshendi are intelligent Parshman, but we don't know if they're completely into voidbringer mode. Several times, they're called creatures of ash and flame. Jasnah thinks this is because their description has become more fantastical over the millennium, but we also have death quotes where they're described as burning/flaming.


Here is what I think:
The parsheman is the core being, that needs to be "fueled" to develop intelligence.
Maybe that's what they need the gemhearts for, to provied magical energy for their next transformation.
Or maybe each voidbringer needs an entire gemheart
 implanted in them to work as their stormlight storage.


gideon

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2010, 03:51:34 PM »
I agree that the Heralds aren't dead.  I also think there is something to the fact that Talenel returned to Alethkar.  I wonder if the other Heralds are "ruling" in some form the other kingdoms.  Could Taravangian be a Herald?  Remember that they all broke.  As for where the battle in the Prelude was fought, I suspect it was the shattered plains.  Subtle things as I re-read it made me think of that.  In particular, that the Heralds met at the tower, so I think their swords are there, but covered in stone(crem).

Also, why do people assume Jasneh was correct that the voidbringers are the Parshendi?  That's her theory, but the thunderclast in the Prelude seems more like an actual voidbringer.

Erunion

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Re: WoK: The Heralds *Spoilers*
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2010, 05:49:42 PM »
I've always thought it likely that Voidbringer doesn't refer to a specific creature, but rather to a group of creatures, encompassing Thunderclasts, likely the Parshendi, and whatever other fighters are working during the desolations.
I can't see Thunderclasts as being the only Voidbringer, as Nohadon, when talking to Dalinar in his vision, mentions that the desolation lasted for eleven years. Also remember from the pre-prologue that everyone who could hold a weapon was fighting. Only someone with incredibly heavy equipment or a shardblade can engage a thunderclast, so if they are the only voidbringer, why have spearmen and the like fighting?