Author Topic: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**  (Read 31423 times)

guy

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #105 on: October 01, 2010, 05:20:44 PM »
Why doesnt the soulcaster work even if it has been put back together perfectly?

Erunion

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #106 on: October 01, 2010, 06:01:41 PM »
Can't tell you exactly without knowing more about soulcasters, but it is likely that the spren imprisoned in the soulcaster is gone, released (or destroyed?) when the soulcaster was broken.
That is, of course, if soulcasters follow the examples of more modern fabrials in relying on imprisoned spren.

douglas

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #107 on: October 01, 2010, 06:13:21 PM »
Because it hasn't been put back together "perfectly", just well enough that visual and tactile inspection can't tell the difference.  It is an ancient magical device, and mere physical reassembly is not sufficient to repair damage to the magical portion of its workings.

nomti

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #108 on: October 01, 2010, 07:23:07 PM »
Can't tell you exactly without knowing more about soulcasters, but it is likely that the spren imprisoned in the soulcaster is gone, released (or destroyed?) when the soulcaster was broken.
That is, of course, if soulcasters follow the examples of more modern fabrials in relying on imprisoned spren.

It also assumes that any Soulcasting requires fabrials.  We've only seen a broken fabrial and a decoy.  The ardents, who use the rest of them, always use them in secret.  They could all be fakes, just useful places to carry infused gemstones to use in spren-fueled soulcasting that the ardents still remember how to do from the Shadowdays.


Cheese Ninja

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #109 on: October 01, 2010, 11:18:24 PM »
I think the majority of Soulcasting is done using fabrials, there might be a few special cases besides Jasnah and Shallan though.

Can't tell you exactly without knowing more about soulcasters, but it is likely that the spren imprisoned in the soulcaster is gone, released (or destroyed?) when the soulcaster was broken.
That is, of course, if soulcasters follow the examples of more modern fabrials in relying on imprisoned spren.

According to Harakeke's translation (thank you) of Navani's notebook:
Quote
The cut and type of the gem determines what kind of spren are attracted to it and can be imprisoned in it. There must be thousands of possible combinations.
Once a spren is captured and the gem infused with Stormlight the fabrial can be used in machines.
It's the gems that attract and imprison spren, and by infusing the gem with stormlight the gem becomes usable.  The fabrials themselves (Soulcasters and Shardplate included?) aren't what's imprisoning the spren.  I wonder if this is related to how cut gems store more stormlight than uncut.
Because it hasn't been put back together "perfectly", just well enough that visual and tactile inspection can't tell the difference.  It is an ancient magical device, and mere physical reassembly is not sufficient to repair damage to the magical portion of its workings.
This is what I'm going with.

Also: The Soulcaster was found in an inside coat pocket, sheared through a chain and a gem setting (I believe there are 3 gem settings and 2 chains that connect to 2 rings, quite a bit like the angreal that Nynaeve used in WoT, which is a possible influence on its design).  They had a jeweler repair it to the degree that Shallan can't visibly tell that it was broken.

KhyEllie

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #110 on: October 05, 2010, 11:25:57 PM »
I've been doing my first reread, and found something rather interesting:

Quote
The miners eventually tired to Took's increasingly slurred stories. They bid him farewell, ignoring his broad hints that another cup of beer would prompt him to tell his greatest tale: that of the time when he'd seen the Nightwatcher herself and stolen a sphere that glowed as black as night. That tale always discomforted Szeth, as it reminded him of the strange black sphere Gavilar had given him. He'd hidden that carefully in Jah Keved. He didn't know what it was, but he didn't want to risk a master taking it from him.

C12VT

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #111 on: October 07, 2010, 07:25:57 PM »
Maybe the blood in the picture Shallan drew doesn't mean there was actually blood in that scene when it really happened - maybe she added blood because she expected it to be there, subconsciously, or because the presence of blood was true in a metaphorical or spiritual sense. Just like when she draws the symbol-headed spren into her pictures, they weren't actually visible in real life (but were present in some other way).

Dryone

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #112 on: October 07, 2010, 10:11:35 PM »
Do we know how Shallan's stepmother died and when? Any chance it was the same disastrous evening?

Stormblessed

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #113 on: October 08, 2010, 01:28:22 AM »
Maybe the blood in the picture Shallan drew doesn't mean there was actually blood in that scene when it really happened - maybe she added blood because she expected it to be there, subconsciously, or because the presence of blood was true in a metaphorical or spiritual sense. Just like when she draws the symbol-headed spren into her pictures, they weren't actually visible in real life (but were present in some other way).

Shallan has a photographic memory. If she drew blood, then blood was probably there, she would've been drawing straight from her memory.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier

Stormblessed

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #114 on: October 08, 2010, 01:30:00 AM »
Do we know how Shallan's stepmother died and when? Any chance it was the same disastrous evening?

I assumed she died prior to the death of Shallan's dad. I vaguely remember a comment on Shallan's dad's long term reaction to his second wife's death.
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier

Harakeke

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #115 on: October 08, 2010, 09:32:13 AM »
It also assumes that any Soulcasting requires fabrials.  We've only seen a broken fabrial and a decoy.  The ardents, who use the rest of them, always use them in secret.  They could all be fakes, just useful places to carry infused gemstones to use in spren-fueled soulcasting that the ardents still remember how to do from the Shadowdays.

Shallan raises the same question in Ch. 72, and Jasnah assures here that Soulcasting fabrials are not a hoax, and that there's something special about people who can Soulcast on their own.
Jasnah is about to explain exactly how Soulcasting is related to the Knights Radiant (apparantly two orders of Knights could pull off the soulcasting trick)... but then decides to hold off until the next book, just to tease us.  =P

Stormblessed

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #116 on: October 08, 2010, 09:42:58 AM »
The voice of God *cough Brandon cough* told her not to reveal the information. Of course, Jasnah thought it was just her subconscious, but we know better.  ;)
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier

Harakeke

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #117 on: October 08, 2010, 09:46:55 AM »
Maybe the blood in the picture Shallan drew doesn't mean there was actually blood in that scene when it really happened - maybe she added blood because she expected it to be there, subconsciously, or because the presence of blood was true in a metaphorical or spiritual sense. Just like when she draws the symbol-headed spren into her pictures, they weren't actually visible in real life (but were present in some other way).

Shallan has a photographic memory. If she drew blood, then blood was probably there, she would've been drawing straight from her memory.

Not just a photographic memory -- but a Memory (with a capital M!).  The detail in which it's described reminds me of Dalinar's Thrill (with a capital T.)

Hmmm... Memory, Thrill, Shardblade, Soulcaster, Oathpact, Heralds...
I've got it -- the power of the Shard of Adonalsium that was held by The Almighty was... Capitalization!

Stormblessed

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Re: WoK: Shalan - near end of book **SPOILERS**
« Reply #118 on: October 08, 2010, 09:48:21 AM »
Maybe the blood in the picture Shallan drew doesn't mean there was actually blood in that scene when it really happened - maybe she added blood because she expected it to be there, subconsciously, or because the presence of blood was true in a metaphorical or spiritual sense. Just like when she draws the symbol-headed spren into her pictures, they weren't actually visible in real life (but were present in some other way).

Shallan has a photographic memory. If she drew blood, then blood was probably there, she would've been drawing straight from her memory.

Lol, and Odium is Communism.

However, you do raise a good point there. I think there is something more here than meets the eye. Further research is needed.

Not just a photographic memory -- but a Memory (with a capital M!).  The detail in which it's described reminds me of Dalinar's Thrill (with a capital T.)

Hmmm... Memory, Thrill, Shardblade, Soulcaster, Oathpact, Heralds...
I've got it -- the power of the Shard of Adonalsium that was held by The Almighty was... Capitalization!
"You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me!
 -- Darkeyed Soldier