Deus-Ex Machina in Hero of Ages? *Spoilers*

[DarkEnigma]

Hello all,

I've always had a problem with writers who bend the rules they themselves set up or change a character's... erm... character in order to reach the next plot "checkpoint".  In lesser author's books I usually just roll my eyes and brush it off, but after reading the first two of the Mistborn trilogy and being delighted with the authors skill, I was quite put out when I came across this nefarious device in the third book.

To wit:  when Vin is trapped by Yomen in the cache, and is offered the drugged wine... and she drinks it.

I was sorely disappointed by this naked plot device: not only because it was unnecessary but mostly because it marred an otherwise skillfully rendered story (like a Ferrari with a sticky clutch... you might expect that from Ford). 

Let's recap: Vin is a woman whose survival instinct is second to none.  She stands apart and assesses the danger in every situation even when among friends.  Vin a child of the unforgiving streets, who is always the cynic, the overly cautious one, the consummate survivor... willingly allowing herself to be incapacitated?? Especially when there were obvious options still available for her to take (like torturing Telden with a hand over his mouth to dampen his screams until he gave the signal to open the grate)??  Don't tell me she isn't ruthless enough to attempt it: I submit the massacre at Cett's keep as exhibit "A".

This event was so jarring that I put down the book and walked away in mid sentence, I almost didn't finish the series.  Only several days later did I come back to it, more out of a sense of obligation than desire.

Was anyone else bothered by this, or am I just mad?

[Valkynphyre]

That's who Vin is now, you should check out the Annotations. Brandon did this intentionally to show how much she had changed. Good reasons behind it.

[Chaos]

This is the related annotation: http://www.brandonsanderson.com/annotation/319/Mistborn-3-Chapter-Fifty

I wouldn't say it's a deus ex machina in the classic sense. The characters just made a decision, one which didn't work for you, and I'm sorry. (Really, the most deus ex machina event in the whole series is Vin using the mists against the Lord Ruler in book one, since that wasn't really foreshadowed)

That said, it did work for me. Vin always goes with her gut instinct. So, she naturally she came up with a plan, and unfortunately it didn't work. That's our dear, impulsive Vin to the core.

[Wolfstar]

I have to agree with Chaos.  She might not yet have run out of options, but she was coming close.  It had been days.  Honestly, I think being drugged and knocked out would be better than being locked up with Ruin jabbering in your head.  It would be enough to make one crazy.  *twitch*  Like Zane.  *twitch twitch*

[Comatose]

I also agree.  You sited her attack on Cett's keep as evidence of her ruthlessness.  Did you remember what happened after?  If I remember correctly she hid in an alley and cried.  Also remember: Telden was Elend's friend, and Vin knew it.  He was not some faceless guard to her.  Thirdly, He came up and confronted her directly.  It's a lot easier to kill someone in the heat of battle, or in stealth, as she did with Cett's men, and another thing entirely to look someone in the eye who is helpless against you, and torture them.  Vin has never tortured anyone, she's killed many, but she never tortured anyone.
The use of the mists in book one is the only true use of Deux ex Machina I can see, and there was a reason behind that.  I'm glad you finished the series.   I can't imagine that seen being so jarring as to make anyone consider not finishing it.  Did you at least enjoy the ending?

[Wolfstar]

I, for one, have never read an ending I've enjoyed more than Hero of Ages.  Sure, it wasn't the ending I wanted, but it was the best ending.

[Omelethead]

See, that scene was so out of character, that it completely fit for me. I was not expecting it at all. When they presented her with her options, I was just waiting for her to find a loophole, or to make her own option C (and it's been a while since I've read the book, so I'm a little hazy). So when she just took his conditions, it was really surprising. But her reasoning made sense.



I suppose she could have tried to torture Telden, but she obviously didn't think it would work. *shrug* Didn't really seem wrong to me. If anything, I liked the scene and how it was all written. It strengthened the book IMO.

[Obsessiforge]

I think the annotations make it clear that Brandon put as much thought into that decision as he does in all his writing. I remember thinking "NOOO THERE'S GOT TO BE ANOTHER WAY", but when I thought about it, I realized that I would have made the same decision. She wasn't trying to incapacitate herself, she was taking a gamble. If it had worked, it would have been the sort of thing we'd come to expect from Vin - down the drugged wine, let them think they've got her, then BANG, they're all down in a whirlwind of tiny-lady fury.

I think its the mark of strong writing that every once in a while, the protagonists can fail. Sometimes we as readers have to come to respect an antagonist in order for the story to be compelling, and I think that's what this did for Yeoman (among other things).

In fact, that idea of failing protagonists follows Hero of Ages through to the end, with both Elend and Vin's deaths. It raises the stakes when the heroes can't just fix everything by snapping their fingers.

[DarkEnigma]

Hmm... The annotation appears to assume the only choice was between staying in the cavern indefinitely or trusting in Yomen's good grace.   However, my point is that's a bit of a false dichotomy.  There were still options available to Vin: options that were not outside of her character (as the one she chose, I believe, clearly was).  I think that willingly allowing herself to be put into stasis where she couldn't assess, contemplate, and react to her circumstances, where she would be completely vulnerable to the whims of her captors, would be so abhorrent to her that she would only do so if her life or a close associates were immediately threatened.

[Obsessiforge]

Hmm... The annotation appears to assume the only choice was between staying in the cavern indefinitely or trusting in Yomen's good grace.   However, my point is that's a bit of a false dichotomy.  There were still options available to Vin: options that were not outside of her character (as the one she chose, I believe, clearly was).  I think that willingly allowing herself to be put into stasis where she couldn't assess, contemplate, and react to her circumstances, where she would be completely vulnerable to the whims of her captors, would be so abhorrent to her that she would only do so if her life or a close associates were immediately threatened.

now THAT's where the problem is, as Sazed would say, I think.

the reason that annotation starts with a comment about Vin being impulsive is because her split-second assessment of her pewter and duralumin stores (and what she could do with them) lead her to think she'd be able to shake off the poison. As I remember, she was legitimately surprised when the poison persisted after she'd run out. Surprised and disappointed. There's no resignation in her action, merely a gamble gone wrong. Yes, there were other actions she could have taken, but the one she decided to take was completely in her character.

I'll point you back to the first book, where Kelsier sneaks into Kredik Shaw, and Vin follows him - the annotations reference both of their impulsive natures...hold on while I get it.

HERE it is -

"Following Kelsier this night is probably one of the dumbest things Vin does in this book. Letting her follow is undoubtedly the dumbest thing Kelsier does in the book. Yet, these two characters are alike in more ways than they may seem at first. Both have a sense of brashness that borders on the foolhardy."

And if you'll remember, that too was a gamble that didn't go well for them - Vin almost died there.

So I think there's been enough evidence that Vin's been intended to be a very very impulsive character. Downing the wine and thinking she'd be able to fight off the drugs and her enemies was foolhardy, and possibly not her best shot, but its what came to her first. And if there's anything we can count on Vin doing, its going with her gut.

[Comatose]

I fail to see the other options that were availiable to Vin that were within her character.  As I explained in my last post, I think torturing Telden would be incredibly out of character.  Vin may be a force to be reckoned with, but, as the book points out many times, she is not Kelsier.  Kelsier probably would have tortured Telden.  Vin would not.

[Chaos]

If anything, the scene where Vin turns Goradel at the end of MB1 shows Vin is far kinder than Kelsier. Vin would not torture a man.

[Obsessiforge]

If anything, the scene where Vin turns Goradel at the end of MB1 shows Vin is far kinder than Kelsier. Vin would not torture a man.

I'm a dork so I just read through all the annotations for book 1. Brandon mentions this as well. He's also mentioned that Kelsier makes him uncomfortable sometimes because of what he's willing to do. So Vin shares his impulsiveness but not his ruthlessness.

[Ari54]

I also agree.  You sited her attack on Cett's keep as evidence of her ruthlessness.

Okay, I try not to pedant other people too much, but homophone confusion really gets me. You wanted to say "cite":

cite - To reference something.
site - An area or website.
sight - Vision.

I think the annotations make it clear that Brandon put as much thought into that decision as he does in all his writing. I remember thinking "NOOO THERE'S GOT TO BE ANOTHER WAY", but when I thought about it, I realized that I would have made the same decision. She wasn't trying to incapacitate herself, she was taking a gamble. If it had worked, it would have been the sort of thing we'd come to expect from Vin - down the drugged wine, let them think they've got her, then BANG, they're all down in a whirlwind of tiny-lady fury.

I think its the mark of strong writing that every once in a while, the protagonists can fail. Sometimes we as readers have to come to respect an antagonist in order for the story to be compelling, and I think that's what this did for Yeoman (among other things).

In fact, that idea of failing protagonists follows Hero of Ages through to the end, with both Elend and Vin's deaths. It raises the stakes when the heroes can't just fix everything by snapping their fingers.

This is pretty much what I would have said- except I think the protagonist failing in at least some significant way is absolutely mandatory if they're going to pull off a big win- and vice-versa if they're going to fail.

[Comatose]

Jeez, sorry about that.  I should have known that.  I used to know it anyways.  Either I forgot, or I had a brain fart.  Thanks for pointing it out!

Cite, cite, cite, cite.

Is it just me, or does it now feel like we are convincing ourselves here?