Nightblood and Metalminds

[Technomancer]

Nightblood is steel right?  What if a feruchemist stored speed in it?  Maybe nightblood could steal it, maybe the feruchemist would get a surprise when he/she tried to withdraw his or her speed.  What it was used as a hemalurgic spike?  Scary stuff, the possibilites are endless.
Oh, I got it.  Nightblood has speed stored in it, then is stabbed through the body of an elantrian, into it's waiting hemalurgic host.

but Hemalurgi spikes steal allomantic powers, would it steal the powers of an Elantrian?   Plus Nightblood would just suck it's new host dry if it were used as a spike.

Actually a hemalurgic spike can steel allomantic powers, feruchemical powers or just plain human qualities depending who kill with it and where it's placed int he recipient.

I knew that I just wasn't thinking, still Elantrian powers are a bit different.

[Chaos]

So could we say that the Dor and Breath are somehow related as well? 

Well, that's not specific at all, really. Of course they are somehow related, they are both derived from Shards of Adonalsium.

Nightblood is steel right?  What if a feruchemist stored speed in it?  Maybe nightblood could steal it, maybe the feruchemist would get a surprise when he/she tried to withdraw his or her speed.  What it was used as a hemalurgic spike?  Scary stuff, the possibilites are endless.
Oh, I got it.  Nightblood has speed stored in it, then is stabbed through the body of an elantrian, into it's waiting hemalurgic host.

but Hemalurgi spikes steal allomantic powers, would it steal the powers of an Elantrian?   Plus Nightblood would just suck it's new host dry if it were used as a spike.

Actually a hemalurgic spike can steel allomantic powers, feruchemical powers or just plain human qualities depending who kill with it and where it's placed int he recipient.

I knew that I just wasn't thinking, still Elantrian powers are a bit different.

It's important to know that, perhaps, while from our armchair view of the Cosmere, that Hemalurgy could theoretically steal these spiritual and genetic codes and give them to another, that it there might not exist certain places to stab the spike for certain magic systems. We don't know enough to know, either way.

Practically speaking, though, even if there exists a place where a Hemalurgically imbued spike can be placed into one of Endowment's creations, it may be impossible to find, given the viewpoint of humans. I'd argue it would even take a Shard a very long time to figure such things out.

[Technomancer]

I don't know, Rashek figured out Kandra,  Koloss, and Inquistors while he was in the Well of Ascensio or shortly afterward, now that said there should be a hemalurgic spike for every Allomantic metal and we don't know what a lot of them do, hemalugically speaking so it is open to speculation on whether they could steal powers from different magic systems.

[Chaos]

But, of the possibilities of places where Hemalurgic spikes can go, Sazed stated that the Lord Ruler only knew of three. Three! He spent the next thousand years trying to discover more, only to fail.

[Technomancer]

Yes I know, I'm saying it'd be easy, just possible.

[Chaos]

Ostensibly, yes. There is no evidence to falsify whether Hemalurgy can steal other magics' powers thus far.

[happyman]

From a storytelling viewpoint, wouldn't this make Hemalurgy a bit overpowered?

[Link von Kelsier Harvey XXIV]

Also from a storytelling viewpoint, saying that Hemalurgy can only steal allomantic and feruchemical powers means that Ruin and Preservation must always come as a pair. Presumably, the shattering launched all the shards all over the place and those two wound up together, but could they not have if things had turned out just a little differently?  When Sazed says they belong together, does he mean as parts of Adolnasium, or as a pair?

[Terrisman243]

From HoA Q&A:

Another question, Brandon. Would the Three Metallic Arts operate in other worlds, or are they direct results of Ruin and Preservation and thus only operate in Scadriel?

Okay, back to answering spoilers.  (Or, in the case of this post, half-answering them.)

To use Feruchemy or Allomancy in almost every case, one must have the right spiritual and genetic codes, imprinted upon people during the creation of Scadrial by Ati and Leras.  To use Hemalurgy, one must first have someone with these right spiritual and genetic codse, then take the power from them.  Other people on other worlds are not going to simply discover the Three Metallic Arts by accident.

This seems to say that Hemalurgy would only work with Allomancy and Feruchemy.

[Fireborn]

But, of the possibilities of places where Hemalurgic spikes can go, Sazed stated that the Lord Ruler only knew of three. Three! He spent the next thousand years trying to discover more, only to fail.

Not places to put spikes, but specific hemalurgic creations.

From HoA Q&A:

Another question, Brandon. Would the Three Metallic Arts operate in other worlds, or are they direct results of Ruin and Preservation and thus only operate in Scadriel?

Okay, back to answering spoilers.  (Or, in the case of this post, half-answering them.)

To use Feruchemy or Allomancy in almost every case, one must have the right spiritual and genetic codes, imprinted upon people during the creation of Scadrial by Ati and Leras.  To use Hemalurgy, one must first have someone with these right spiritual and genetic codse, then take the power from them.  Other people on other worlds are not going to simply discover the Three Metallic Arts by accident.

This seems to say that Hemalurgy would only work with Allomancy and Feruchemy.

Then how come there are the four metals (iron, tin, zinc, copper) that steal human attributes? (strength, senses, mental and emotional fortitude) Plus the seven metals that we don't even know what they do?

[happyman]

But, of the possibilities of places where Hemalurgic spikes can go, Sazed stated that the Lord Ruler only knew of three. Three! He spent the next thousand years trying to discover more, only to fail.

Not places to put spikes, but specific hemalurgic creations.

From HoA Q&A:

Another question, Brandon. Would the Three Metallic Arts operate in other worlds, or are they direct results of Ruin and Preservation and thus only operate in Scadriel?

Okay, back to answering spoilers.  (Or, in the case of this post, half-answering them.)

To use Feruchemy or Allomancy in almost every case, one must have the right spiritual and genetic codes, imprinted upon people during the creation of Scadrial by Ati and Leras.  To use Hemalurgy, one must first have someone with these right spiritual and genetic codse, then take the power from them.  Other people on other worlds are not going to simply discover the Three Metallic Arts by accident.

This seems to say that Hemalurgy would only work with Allomancy and Feruchemy.

Then how come there are the four metals (iron, tin, zinc, copper) that steal human attributes? (strength, senses, mental and emotional fortitude) Plus the seven metals that we don't even know what they do?

In this case, the human attributes that are stolen come from part of preservation that ended up in people's souls.  It's totally tied to the duality between Ruin and Preservation.

Preservation and Ruin, it seems to me, are paired to each other more closely than the other shards.  They both seem to draw power from metals, for one thing, which doesn't match anything we've seen in the other shard worlds at all.  Their natures are clearly linked thematically, unlike Endowment, which doesn't seem to have any relationship to either.  And what the heck is the Dor?

[Chaos]

Kind of hard to tell if other Shards have similar relations. We only know of Endowment. There could be a counterpart we just haven't seen.

The Dor is much more mysterious because we don't have a Shard's name or purpose to go along with it.

[Fireborn]

But, of the possibilities of places where Hemalurgic spikes can go, Sazed stated that the Lord Ruler only knew of three. Three! He spent the next thousand years trying to discover more, only to fail.

Not places to put spikes, but specific hemalurgic creations.

From HoA Q&A:

Another question, Brandon. Would the Three Metallic Arts operate in other worlds, or are they direct results of Ruin and Preservation and thus only operate in Scadriel?

Okay, back to answering spoilers.  (Or, in the case of this post, half-answering them.)

To use Feruchemy or Allomancy in almost every case, one must have the right spiritual and genetic codes, imprinted upon people during the creation of Scadrial by Ati and Leras.  To use Hemalurgy, one must first have someone with these right spiritual and genetic codse, then take the power from them.  Other people on other worlds are not going to simply discover the Three Metallic Arts by accident.

This seems to say that Hemalurgy would only work with Allomancy and Feruchemy.

Then how come there are the four metals (iron, tin, zinc, copper) that steal human attributes? (strength, senses, mental and emotional fortitude) Plus the seven metals that we don't even know what they do?

In this case, the human attributes that are stolen come from part of preservation that ended up in people's souls.  It's totally tied to the duality between Ruin and Preservation.

Preservation and Ruin, it seems to me, are paired to each other more closely than the other shards.  They both seem to draw power from metals, for one thing, which doesn't match anything we've seen in the other shard worlds at all.  Their natures are clearly linked thematically, unlike Endowment, which doesn't seem to have any relationship to either.  And what the heck is the Dor?

The impression I get from some of what Brandon has said is that the magic comes from the shards' interaction with humanity, with different genetics affecting the magic.  I'd say that this specific duality is created by not only Ruin and Preservation interecting with humans, but also from interacting with each other.  The fact that they are opposing forces probably has little to do with it other than the different forms the magic takes reflecting the different aspects of the shards.  I suspect if you put, say, Endowment in place of Ruin, you'd wind up with a similar sort of setup minus the direct antagonism of two outright opposite forces.

[Ari54]

Kind of hard to tell if other Shards have similar relations. We only know of Endowment. There could be a counterpart we just haven't seen.

The Dor is much more mysterious because we don't have a Shard's name or purpose to go along with it.

What, you think there's a Shard out there called Revocation (or something similar) that we haven't met?

[happyman]

But, of the possibilities of places where Hemalurgic spikes can go, Sazed stated that the Lord Ruler only knew of three. Three! He spent the next thousand years trying to discover more, only to fail.

Not places to put spikes, but specific hemalurgic creations.

From HoA Q&A:

Another question, Brandon. Would the Three Metallic Arts operate in other worlds, or are they direct results of Ruin and Preservation and thus only operate in Scadriel?

Okay, back to answering spoilers.  (Or, in the case of this post, half-answering them.)

To use Feruchemy or Allomancy in almost every case, one must have the right spiritual and genetic codes, imprinted upon people during the creation of Scadrial by Ati and Leras.  To use Hemalurgy, one must first have someone with these right spiritual and genetic codse, then take the power from them.  Other people on other worlds are not going to simply discover the Three Metallic Arts by accident.

This seems to say that Hemalurgy would only work with Allomancy and Feruchemy.

Then how come there are the four metals (iron, tin, zinc, copper) that steal human attributes? (strength, senses, mental and emotional fortitude) Plus the seven metals that we don't even know what they do?

In this case, the human attributes that are stolen come from part of preservation that ended up in people's souls.  It's totally tied to the duality between Ruin and Preservation.

Preservation and Ruin, it seems to me, are paired to each other more closely than the other shards.  They both seem to draw power from metals, for one thing, which doesn't match anything we've seen in the other shard worlds at all.  Their natures are clearly linked thematically, unlike Endowment, which doesn't seem to have any relationship to either.  And what the heck is the Dor?

The impression I get from some of what Brandon has said is that the magic comes from the shards' interaction with humanity, with different genetics affecting the magic.  I'd say that this specific duality is created by not only Ruin and Preservation interecting with humans, but also from interacting with each other.  The fact that they are opposing forces probably has little to do with it other than the different forms the magic takes reflecting the different aspects of the shards.  I suspect if you put, say, Endowment in place of Ruin, you'd wind up with a similar sort of setup minus the direct antagonism of two outright opposite forces.

It's certainly possible that if we had endowment and preservation, we would get three magic systems:  allomancy, awakening, and whatever-it-would-be.  Thing is, though, we don't even know if it is possible for Preservation to create without Ruin to help.  Their powers are independently so powerful, yet limited, I don't know if it makes sense to consider anything made by one that doesn't have the other.  Certainly Preservation by himself has nothing to offer.