Author Topic: April 12 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Name of God, Jin 7  (Read 1827 times)

LongTimeUnderdog

  • Level 9
  • *
  • Posts: 304
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
April 12 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Name of God, Jin 7
« on: April 12, 2010, 07:29:55 PM »
In which a lot of stuff happens . . . and ninjas make an appearance.

LongTimeUnderdog

  • Level 9
  • *
  • Posts: 304
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: April 12 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Name of God, Jin 7
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2010, 10:10:25 PM »
Thank you everyone, for at least reading the header to the submission.

Shivertongue

  • Level 9
  • *
  • Posts: 329
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Enjoy your right to be intentionally ridiculous!
    • View Profile
Re: April 12 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Name of God, Jin 7
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2010, 10:37:54 PM »
Sorry...been a bit busy. Just had a tooth pulled. I'll try to take a look once I get home.
This propaganda has been brought to you by High Priest and Occasional Pope Archbishop Shivertongue Von Slamdance VI, of the Vibrating Purple cabal of POEE (Paratheoanametamystikhood Of Eris Esoteric). All rights ignored. Salvation not available in Idaho. Hail Eris. All Hail Discordia. Fnord?

LongTimeUnderdog

  • Level 9
  • *
  • Posts: 304
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: April 12 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Name of God, Jin 7
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 02:47:49 AM »
No no, I was serious.  I realize the stuff is heavy handed and a bit confusing so I appreciate people taking any time they can!  I hope your tooth feels better.

clarissavandell

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: April 12 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Name of God, Jin 7
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 03:41:13 PM »
Alright.
I don't know how much use my thoughts will be, since I'm a little bit behind on the rest of your chapters...  I read your little synopsises, and that helped, but...

I like the female-centric society you create, and I certainly hope that Jin does well in his next chapter.  Again: despite the typos, it seems to work pretty well.  The end scene with Jalean is a bit confusing; I'm assuming she was killed by the hesk, but there's no specific mention.  And that was probably the biggest thing for me.

LongTimeUnderdog

  • Level 9
  • *
  • Posts: 304
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: April 12 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Name of God, Jin 7
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2010, 02:18:06 PM »
I think you're the only person so far who's really "enjoyed," my chick-power society.  I do appreciate your input, so fire in as much as you need. 

Shivertongue

  • Level 9
  • *
  • Posts: 329
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Enjoy your right to be intentionally ridiculous!
    • View Profile
Re: April 12 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Name of God, Jin 7
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2010, 08:35:37 PM »
Okay, you should feel honoured. You're getting my first free moment since the surgery. :P

Before I begin, I should mention I don't hate the female-centric society - I just haven't figured out WHY it's so female-centric. Most worlds and countries run by matriarchies have a reason for it - religious, magical power, some kind of philosophy, a vastly reduced number of men in the world. Something. So far, and maybe I misread an earlier chapter, I haven't seen the WHY yet. And this far in the story, there should be some reason. Add in that most of the women that appear act like such heinous b*tches it practically justifies men attempting a revolution or at least staging protests to demand equality. And that this feminist/matriarchal mindset runs throughout all these different cultures, in varying degrees admittedly, is confusing as well - in indicates to me that culturally, these different peoples come from the same root, or that the reason one group is 'chick-powered' is the same reason they all are.

Again, though, I don't know what that reason is. And since I don't know what reason it is, it feels like it's just THERE. There because you thought it'd be neat, there to be different, there because you have your own feminist views and your Terry Goodkinding us - I don't know. I've read so many stories, though, that have women-in-charge to some degree or another that it bores me unless there's a truly compelling reason for it. If I've missed that reason, my bad, please tell me what it i and which chapter it was in.

Anyway, that said... onto the chapter.

Jin is still whiny, I see...

He's wearing a woman's skirt? I this because there's no male equivalent or kilt-like garment, or is it just Jin's perception of the clothing?

Quote
“Write his name here,” she said, pointing to a blank place on the scroll between two lines of hieroglyphs.  “And yours here.  Since he can't read, being male, you'll have to read the waiver to him.  And most likely summarize it for his simple, male mind.”

Like that. Deliberately insulting, makes her and most of the other women seem like total b*tches, and above it all no reason given for why they think this way. Again, if I missed it - it's been how many chapters now? - I'd love to see it (and if it has come up, it wasn't done in a memorable way, which should also be rectified.) However, at this point, it is very much in-character, so it doesn't exactly come out of nowhere.

Quote
“You, Jin'Cathul, are sponsored by me, Canaluda Tasamoon, and all profits from your winnings will be invested toward me and my House.  If so granted you will retain all arms and armaments, but names will be given to the House for storage and use as we see fit.  This sponsorship is good until your death or at which time I, the sponsor, break it.”

(Bolding mine) I love this bit. Show again that names have power, that things can be done with them, and above all the line just works.

*blinks* She's dead? What are hesks? So many new words to remember in this story....

Okay, finished. Overall, the chapter is good. It doesn't have the story-arching plot advances that some of the others have, but it does contain more advancement (finally) for Jin as a character. By the end, I think I could feel him becoming a little less whiny. This is good, because if he's one of our heroes, I'd prefer to actually like him as a character. I still find him annoying, but I think he's about to take a level of badass... At least, I hope he is.

With the scene between Jalean and Herme, just like with Caramoth and whats-her-name in one of the previous Anaiah chapters ( the last one I managed to comment on, I think it was 4? ) it seems like a lot of the actual plot is happening with little involvement of the primary characters.

Here's where I come in with the obligatory "this story is turning out to be very long" bit. You've read it before, so let's just move on.

Despite my general distaste/confusion with the oppressive misandristic (sp?) society, I love the world you have created. It feels very rich and well-developed, if a little confusing in some places.
This propaganda has been brought to you by High Priest and Occasional Pope Archbishop Shivertongue Von Slamdance VI, of the Vibrating Purple cabal of POEE (Paratheoanametamystikhood Of Eris Esoteric). All rights ignored. Salvation not available in Idaho. Hail Eris. All Hail Discordia. Fnord?

LongTimeUnderdog

  • Level 9
  • *
  • Posts: 304
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: April 12 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Name of God, Jin 7
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2010, 10:47:37 PM »
Quote
Before I begin, I should mention I don't hate the female-centric society - I just haven't figured out WHY it's so female-centric. Most worlds and countries run by matriarchies have a reason for it - religious, magical power, some kind of philosophy, a vastly reduced number of men in the world. Something. So far, and maybe I misread an earlier chapter, I haven't seen the WHY yet. And this far in the story, there should be some reason. Add in that most of the women that appear act like such heinous b*tches it practically justifies men attempting a revolution or at least staging protests to demand equality. And that this feminist/matriarchal mindset runs throughout all these different cultures, in varying degrees admittedly, is confusing as well - in indicates to me that culturally, these different peoples come from the same root, or that the reason one group is 'chick-powered' is the same reason they all are.

A lot of the reasoning behind the female centricity stems from the same place as Male-centricity in our own world.  It simply happened that way.  Why did it happen that way?  Because men were by nature stronger.  In this world, since any woman can be a Lyrist, women are by nature stronger.  I know someone out there is going to question Guli's singing and rocks, but that's not Lyrisism.  The Canyon people think it is, because they don't really know what Lyrisism is.

You're very clever to pick up that patterns of the different societies.  I've honestly been trying to leave my reasons subtle (overly so, it seems) because no one is actually going to think about these things when they are living.  If men are the boss, men are the boss.  If women are the boss, they're the boss.  That's just how life is, so they don't think about it differently.

Another reason is the actual physical characteristics of men and women.  Men are, by nature, stronger.  Without chemical supplements, if a man works out his upper body for only half the time (slight exaggeration there) then a women, he will still gain muscle faster.  So physical labors are handed out to men.  This keeps men busy, so they don't have time to actually study or really learn.  Laws exist to keep things this way as well.  For example, it is punishable by death for enslaved men to read in the Salts.  Women, since the men are busy doing the harder work, have more time to become educated, and thus have higher functioning brains.  In that why, they lead, men follow.  Things in this world have just gotten so bad that there is no brain-muscle partnership.  Now it's Master-slave.

Quote
“Write his name here,” she said, pointing to a blank place on the scroll between two lines of hieroglyphs.  “And yours here.  Since he can't read, being male, you'll have to read the waiver to him.  And most likely summarize it for his simple, male mind.”

This is the perfect example here.  Since Jin is a slave, but he can read (several languages), it is important that he doesn't show anyone he can.  She's being insulting on purpose, and at the same time reminding Jin not to show off because it will get him killed.  Jin doesn't understand that, because he sees her as his enemy.  He sees the insult while Jalean's real goal here is to help him.

It's not because I'm a feminist (I'm not) or I actually enjoy Terry Goodkind (ewww).

Quote
What are hesks?

What are Hesk you mean (not that you'd know by now, that the word is the same plural and singular).  A Hesk is . . . what the people of the Salts have been waring against for a long time.  Much about the war is being revisioned into earlier chapters, since it is so important to the story.

Quote
but I think he's about to take a level of badass.

In the next few chapter, he and Burm will be taking several BA levels, that I can promise you.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 11:03:21 PM by LongTimeUnderdog »

LongTimeUnderdog

  • Level 9
  • *
  • Posts: 304
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: April 12 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Name of God, Jin 7
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2010, 01:34:28 AM »
Quote
He's wearing a woman's skirt? I this because there's no male equivalent or kilt-like garment, or is it just Jin's perception of the clothing?

I forgot this one.  It was presented as another subtlety that unfortunately was too subtle (meaning not hit right in the text by the author).  Women's skirt tend to be floor length (or close to it) and men's skirts are knee length.  IN Jin's case, the skirt comes to mid shin, because of the height difference between him and Jalean.

Asmodemon

  • Level 6
  • *
  • Posts: 175
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: April 12 - LongTimeUnderdog - The Name of God, Jin 7
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2010, 09:10:34 PM »
Quote
Before I begin, I should mention I don't hate the female-centric society - I just haven't figured out WHY it's so female-centric.

I thought this was, in part, because of how a witch (Chalot) took down the god of the world.

I also don’t hate your female-centric world, it’s a nice change of pace. However I do think your women are too cruel. It doesn’t feel like they’ve been in charge long and that’s why they continually try to break men to assert their dominance. It makes them seem more insecure than in power, which is something the men (few as they might be) who aren’t cowed, could exploit.

On to the chapter. There were some grammar and spelling things, but aside from that it was pretty good. It’s a bit long for what happens, with a lot of introspection from Jin, but I didn’t mind it much since Jin finally started to realize he might not be so weak.

Aside from Jin Jalean was also a pretty important character this chapter. She has some good points and bad points to her here. 

Quote
“The losses go to you then,” Jalean spat back.  “I'll make sure to inform your mother of her very sudden drop in wealth.  Follow me, I've get a waiver.”

Jalean is a cruel and calculating woman. The fact she spat here is a clear sign that things are slipping through her fingers. I found this to be a good way to lead into the revelation of what Jalean is to Jin.

But there are also some problems. Because you’ve given us her perspective we, the reader, know she loves him. However, through how she acts towards him this in no way can be clear to Jin (and since he hates her it obviously isn’t). So when she says:
Quote
Please let him be smart enough to figure it out,” she pleaded. “I'm really not sure I could have been any clearer.”

I'm really not sure how she could have been any more confusing. Jin would have to be a genius to understand what she is really trying to say – if it’s some last advice on how to win I don’t see it. She’s excessively cruel to him (like all women seem to be) and aside from a few kindnesses that’s all she really is. She should understand that people don’t listen well to people they hate and she’s done everything she could to make him hate her.

It’s the whole cruelty thing; it’s too excessive to really work for me or the characters.

I did like the ending where she finally seems to want to make amends, so the arrival of the Hesk is all the more poignant. It’s a strong ending for the chapter.