Author Topic: The Cosmere- Life and Death  (Read 3071 times)

Ipood

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The Cosmere- Life and Death
« on: April 09, 2010, 02:26:53 PM »
In HOA, Sazed states that Vin and Elend are happy were they are now, and he implies that he can talk to them, but Brandon stated, in his Q and A at Barnes and Nobels last summer, that he cannot contact  Tindwyl, because she has gone on.

But where?

I think I heard somewhere, I can't remember where, that in the Cosmere, you get to live three times, each time in a different world, which I think is loosly based on LDS doctrine. If you live, well, "good", you get to come to some sorts of Elysium, a Heaven. Vin, Elend and Kelsier have still not gone on to rebirth, but still hang around in a sort of preribirth, nearly Heaven.

What do you think?

Link von Kelsier Harvey XXIV

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Re: The Cosmere- Life and Death
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2010, 06:33:36 PM »
From what I remember, Vin, Elend, and Tindwyl are all in the same place, and Sazed has a limited ability to contact them, but cannot be with them.  Kelsier stuck around and Sazed has the constant pleasure of his company.

I've never heard the whole "Everyone lives three times" thing.  Most likely this is a corruption of Realmatic Theory, which states that everyone and everything exists simultaneously in the Spiritual, Cognitive (maybe called The Shadesmar) and Physical Realms.  Elysium is the term for Space Brandon used in his unrelated Sci-fi short story that you can find at the top of his Website.  I can't remember where the word itself comes from, but it isn't from LDS theology.  LDS Theology states that there are three degrees of Heaven, but that's as close as it comes to your theory.

As for where Elend, Vin, and Tindwyl are...  Hmm... Perhaps when one dies they continue to exist in the Spiritual and/or Cognitive Realm?  But which and why, and what do they do there?  I think I'm just dead wrong.
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Creative_Vortx

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Re: The Cosmere- Life and Death
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2010, 07:08:01 PM »
Maybe only Allomancers get to stick around and Tindwyl went to the bad place :cringes:
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Ipood

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Re: The Cosmere- Life and Death
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2010, 08:21:45 PM »
Well,the  Elysian Fields in Elysium is something from greek mythology, where only the greatest of men get to come, if they have lived like heroes in three lifetimes, and I thought it was something like this.

Do the different worlds in the Cosmere exist in the same realm?

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Re: The Cosmere- Life and Death
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2010, 09:56:18 PM »
Do the different worlds in the Cosmere exist in the same realm?

I would say yes, with my only backup being the one person who connects these worlds (hoid) is always described (when he is described) the same way. If we take that and say that he has lived three lifetimes and just happens to be on 3 different planets for each of those lifetimes, I would assume his appearance would change. That's assuming (again, a lot of that going on) reincarnation or whatever we wanna call it, changes your appearance.

Yup. That's my only evidence. Sad I know.
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Link von Kelsier Harvey XXIV

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Re: The Cosmere- Life and Death
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2010, 10:21:04 PM »
The entire Cosmere and all worlds included therein exist simultaneously in all three realms.  That's my understanding at least.  Elysium is only related to the one Sci-fi story, which is NOT a Cosmere story.  Can we get an expert in here to make sure I'm telling the truth?
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Fireborn

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Re: The Cosmere- Life and Death
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2010, 12:14:25 AM »
Sorry, I'm no expert, but I think I can answer a different question.

I think that when the characters died they get to move on to the beyond, but they have the option to stick around a little bit and watch things happen.  This would be in a sort of in between place, which is either the same as or close to where the shard minds are.  Thus, Kelsier was able to grab onto Preservation's power when he died and Vin and Elend were able to talk to Sazed, but Tindwyl doesn't seem to have stayed very long.  I guess it's a one way trip.
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Re: The Cosmere- Life and Death
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2010, 02:59:21 AM »
Yay for being the expert!

Do the different worlds in the Cosmere exist in the same realm?

I would say yes, with my only backup being the one person who connects these worlds (hoid) is always described (when he is described) the same way. If we take that and say that he has lived three lifetimes and just happens to be on 3 different planets for each of those lifetimes, I would assume his appearance would change. That's assuming (again, a lot of that going on) reincarnation or whatever we wanna call it, changes your appearance.

Yup. That's my only evidence. Sad I know.

As far as I know, all of the worlds exist in the same realm, yes. As for Hoid and his appearing on different planets, it's not that he's actually living different lives (or lifetimes) he's actually world jumping. Brandon has confirmed to me that the Hoid we see in Elantris, Mistborn, and Warbreaker are all the same person. When asked HOW he gets from world to world, his answer was "Shadesmar". As such, I can only assume he's not being reincarnated.... but I digress.

While I'm here tho:

The entire Cosmere and all worlds included therein exist simultaneously in all three realms.  That's my understanding at least.  Elysium is only related to the one Sci-fi story, which is NOT a Cosmere story.  Can we get an expert in here to make sure I'm telling the truth?

You are correct, sir. The Cosmere is comprised currently of the worlds we see in Elantris, the Mistborn Saga, Warbreaker, and the upcoming Way of Kings (There will be more worlds as Brandon writes more books). Defending Elysium is NOT a Cosmere story, nor are the Alcatraz books.

*Tries really hard to not get things off topic*

As for what Fireborn said, I'm fairly sure that he's right, but I don't know that Brandon has ever confirmed any of that or not. We'll have to wait and see what Peter says.
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firstRainbowRose

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Re: The Cosmere- Life and Death
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2010, 05:54:16 AM »
Actually, if you don't mind my stepping in, I can confirm that.  If you look into the spoiler thread he said something similar.  Basically, what is going on is there's:

earth-ish
limbo/pergitory/waiting period
heaven

So basically what's going on is when people die they're sent to a in between place.  Then they either move on, or stick around (as Elend and Vin have done).  Tindwyl moved onto heaven, and Sazed can't go there and talk to her.

(mind you, I am explaining all of this as I understand it.  And I'm too lazy to find his exact reply.  But I'm pretty sure that's the way it goes, in my own words.)
"The custom of royalty in referring to oneself is to naturally employ the royal 'we'.  We are very happy, we are very sad, we are bored and suffer from ennui.  For a royal prince there's no such word as 'me', It's always 'we'.  So rightfully I should be two or three, don't you agree?"

zas678

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Re: The Cosmere- Life and Death
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2010, 02:36:21 AM »
And (and this is all from my memory), it kind of sounded like Tindwyl chose to go on, while Kelsier wanted to meddle, and Vin and Elend had just barely died, so they decided to wait for a bit while Sazed cleaned up the world.

My vision of death in the Cosmere is that When you live you are connected to all three realms (physical, cognitive, spiritual).
When you die, you lose your connection to the physical realm, so you exist on the cognitive and spiritual realm.
This is why Sazed was able to talk to Kelsier and Elend and Vin, because they still existed on the cognitive realm. Tindwyl, on the other hand, decided to go on to just the spiritual realm, losing her connection to the spiritual realm.

This is just wild speculation.  It may be that the 'waiting place' is only for Allomancers, or maybe just for those that have an excessive amount of shard (allomancers) in them.


EDIT- Something else occured to me, and I didn't want to double post.

I think that Kelsier was only able to 'piggy-back' on Preservation's power because he didn't have a connection to the Physical Realm. 

When Vin, Ati, and Leras all lost the power, their bodies collapsed to the ground. But because Kelsier was dead, his didn't. This also explains why he was only able to talk in people's minds, instead being able to move the planet. He had no connection to the physical realm, so he can't affect the physical realm.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 03:00:10 AM by Zany And Spontaneus! #678 »
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ErikHolmes

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Re: The Cosmere- Life and Death
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2010, 03:18:18 AM »
What are you guys talking about when you say Kelsier talked to people after he died? Or used preservations power?

I thought Kelsier just died and anytime you saw or heard about seeing him after that was just either the Kandra or Ruin impersonating him.
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douglas

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Re: The Cosmere- Life and Death
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2010, 05:02:25 AM »
Most of the time it was Ruin impersonating him, but there are a small number of cases where it genuinely was Kelsier talking, and this has been explicitly confirmed by Brandon.

ErikHolmes

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Re: The Cosmere- Life and Death
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2010, 09:05:15 AM »
Really? Like when?
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Morderkaine

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Re: The Cosmere- Life and Death
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2010, 09:22:18 AM »
Thursday February 12th, 2010.
In the spoilers of part 3 of the annotation for HoA chp. 58

http://brandonsanderson.com/annotation/330/Mistborn-3-Chapter-Fifty-Eight-Part-3

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