Author Topic: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail  (Read 2396 times)

ErikHolmes

  • Level 10
  • *
  • Posts: 394
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« on: January 06, 2010, 01:07:14 AM »
Back to Kail and Kajsa. They've entered the village where Ellie was captured.

Rated G--for Gore! Blood, killing and severed heads thrown around the room.
Who the hell is interrupting my Kung Fu!

LongTimeUnderdog

  • Level 9
  • *
  • Posts: 304
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2010, 05:42:12 AM »
Right after Rate - G for gore . . . . I knew I'd be totally bias about the piece.

So instead of words, I'll just use ratings.  1 being a desire for time of my life back and 10 being passed Awesome.

Choreography - 11

humor - 6

dialogue - 5

Dialogue while people are kicking the tar out of each other - 2

The choreography was awesome.  Well passed awesome.  Unfortunetly I'm fairly sure that almost no one knows what a tan sau is off the top of their heads.    Also, it IS humanly possible to shatter/dent steel with bare hands.  The Okinawans did it to the Samurai all the time.   But no matter how you slice it I was engrossed by the awesome of face-kicking (well punching).

About the low ratings on humor and dialogue.  I have to hold it up to a higher standard then most because of the brilliant first person tidbits in previous pieces.  Such as "I know I'm a stud . . . ."  At the same time, while those anecdotes are present they are undermined by other things.  For example, when Kajsa is getting all made and picking guys up and throwing them, I was honestly expecting something like "She's so hot," to come up.  The narrative and dialogue is good, but you've proven to be able to include better, so I'm downgrading you for not reaching your potential.

Also when Kajsa get's  shot, its kinda sappy.

Finishing the piece, the action goes on too long.  AMore appropriatly it is not blocked well.  Blocking is not the same as choreography.  Action, much like any other scene should have rises and falls.  tension should rise and fall.  What we have here is "People getting face-kicked," talking.  "big knight getting face-kicked" talking. "She's shot!" talking.  There is just no flow.

Also, if sigil knights are supposed to be the darklords gift to face pwning, how the heck do they beat one on their first try?  It really doesn't seem that tough.

lethalfalcon

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 148
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Why won't insomnia leave me alone?
    • View Profile
Re: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2010, 12:53:25 PM »
Well, I s'pose I'll chime in. Even though I'm more than a bit lost after missing 17 chapters.

My biggest beef with the whole chapter is that you spend too much time describing things. Here's a particular paragraph that bugged me:

Quote
They were straight punches, one right over the other, elbow in, lined up with my shoulders, meaning that when they connect, you aren’t just pushing on my arm, but against my whole body. When I shift towards an opponent, my feet never leave the ground, but glide across it. Which is very effective for maintaining balance and power, it’s tricky to learn, but I’d been practicing a long time.

So, this is the middle of combat, and you're giving me a martial arts lesson. While I don't have any problem with your first description (They were straight punches, one right over the other), when you continue with "meaning that when they connect...", blah. Just describe what you do, not *why* you do it. If it works, your resulting action (the other guy gets the crap kicked out of him) will show such. If it doesn't work, it'll also show (likely by your MC getting the crap kicked out of him). If you want to throw in something like "I was glad I'd been practicing so long." that's good, because it's a quick note that he a) actually knows what he's doing and b) he's still thinking a little bit during the combat.

Cutting out a lot of the over-explanation of what's happening would probably solve the other problem I have: this chapter is pretty long. You could probably cut out 5 pages. Easily. And I don't think it would really affect the choreography

I actually like the second half, with the Sigil Knight better, but I would have to agree with LTU (ugh, that almost feels dirty... sorry LTU :) ). If they're supposed to go around pwning everything, having them beaten already (I assume this is around the end of the first third of the book, maybe moving toward the halfway mark) seems a little premature. I would have expected it to turn out much differently... like, he and Kajsa get their game on, bash some heads in, but then get totally curb stomped by the Knight, and barely manage to get out with their lives. Even better, it could be that the Knight is the one that put the iron into Kajsa (maybe one of their purposes is to deal with trolls, so they're well aware that iron screws them over). Dunno, it's your story, but managing to kill a Knight only to get mortally wounded by a normal person's arrow is a bit anti-climactic.

Personally, I don't mind "kinda sappy". If they're in love, they're in love. There's nothing wrong with that, until you go all Harlequin romance on us. You haven't done that, yet. If it's part of the story, then interweave it with your plot and it'll be cool. If nothing is going to come of it, you probably shouldn't draw too much attention to it, because it'll distract from your real story.

The only other thing I really had problems with was that you used colloquialisms in odd places. At one point you refer to the Knight throwing a punch at "mach two". I understand that your characters are from Earth originally (or something), but even so, most people have no real concept of mach two anyway. "His fist was a blur" conveys just as much, without the technicality of it moving 681m/s (at which point there's no dodging it, I don't care how good you are). It just kinda jars me out of the world, which is fantasy. Unless you're going for a DBZ approach, where people can move faster than light and such. I'd like to think that your story was a little more grounded in semi-reality. Then by all means, SUPERSONIC PUNCH away. :)

I might send you some small line-edits, but not right now. It's late, and 6700 words is a bit to go through with a fine-toothed comb.
I don't have good days. I have great days, where I'm a magician ridding the world of all evil, or at least everything I don't like. And then I wake up, and it's back to work for me.

ryos

  • Level 17
  • *
  • Posts: 824
  • Fell Points: 0
  • The Decemberween Thnikkaman
    • View Profile
Re: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2010, 05:43:20 AM »
I agree most of the action sequences seemed to go on too long, especially Kail's first fight. I also found myself wondering how he got so far before needing to fight more than one soldier at once. Maybe he was moving faster than I perceived? Also, the soldiers took too long to take him seriously. His total jacking-up of the first guy should have been enough to give the others pause.

I also wondered what happened to the cuts on his calves. Hollywood does this all the time—someone gets hurt, but they only stay hurt for a little bit. It's like they expect you to just forget the injury, distracted by the shiny action. I realized that Kail appears to have superhuman healing in this world, and that would probably have done for the cuts, but a sentence confirming this somewhere along the way would have been nice.

I'm glad Kail decided to try to save Kajsa instead of the world. It was very much in character, and I would have been sad to see Kajsa go since she's one of my favorites in this story. Also, her death would have been a bit too convenient, as it would neatly avoid the love triangle that is coming up once they finally reach Ellie.

(The line about the world sucking anyway was a nice touch. Reminded me of this comic.)

I did like this chapter. It was nice to get a bit of movement in the plot department. I feel like, more than anything, what it needs is a good line edit. Your words are good, sometimes great, but your punctuation is in all the wrong places, and it totally messes up the flow of everything. I'll get that done...sometime...and send it on to you.
Eerongal made off with my Fluffy Puff confections.

Dark_Prophecy

  • Level 4
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Sweep Sweep Sweep, all day long!
    • View Profile
    • The Intelli-Gent Reviews
Re: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2010, 09:11:24 AM »
In short, I liked it. A lot.

A couple of things:

I'm not sure what has happened before this, of course. This is the first chapter of yours that I've read. Does the main character come from a different planet or something? I just wondered if that was the reason you have him so strongly contrast with everything else that seems so medieval in the setting and dialogue with other characters.

Second, I have to agree with the others. The descriptions during the fight scenes, while helpful, are somewhat jarring. When you get around to editing it, I'd suggest taking each movement separately, and trying to find one sentence, two at most, that really shows us what's happening. That way we still get your expertise on the fighting scenes, but we're not as easily taken out of the scene by too much description.

As to the scene with the Sigil Knight. I enjoyed the battle. The only line I had a problem with was
Quote
"it is said that no mortal man or army has ever defeated one.”

I think that clues us in a little too quickly to the knight's demise. We know that they're going to defeat this thing in the exact same sentence that we learn it even exists. Maybe increasing Kajsa's fear of the Knight would be more effective than this line at all, especially after Kail has just seen her ripping heads off. Maybe he can think about how bad this Knight must be if someone that just destroyed an entire room of dudes is shivering scared. Also, after the battle, I think they should both just barely escape with their lives like Falcon said. I DO really like the idea of the blonde shooting her with the arrow though. Nice work!

In short, I'm a big fan of this, and want more. Gimme, Gimme!!
I like basketball, hanging out with my friends, reading, slamming a garbage can into a pimp or two with magical heavenly powers. You know, teenager stuff.

Recovering_Cynic

  • Level 13
  • *
  • Posts: 581
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Except vampires. Vampires suck.
    • View Profile
    • my livejournal
Re: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2010, 11:54:15 PM »
Rock on!

As usual, I loved your chapter, although I had to roll my eyes a little at these lines:

Quote
Save the world. Or save the woman I loved. What was our love, compared to the whole world? More than one world even.
Everything. That’s what.
To hell with it, the world sucked anyway. I would not let our love die.

Cheesy much?  Yes.  I'll deal with it though.

Hmm... I do have some questions though, things that need 'splainin.  For example, Kail has studied marshal arts, which means he's sparred before, which means he should have discovered that he can punch holes through walls already.  How does that work?  Also, you need a bit more character transition.  Killing horified Kail initially, but now he's blood thirsty?  When did that happen?

I'll disagree with Dark Prophecy about the Sigil Knight comment.  This isn't the first appearance, nor is he the first to die.  Also, I thought taking it out was sufficiently difficult, so no problems there (for me at least), but only if they will be facing worse to come, which I assume is the case.

Anyway, as always, I enjoyed it.
this is the way the world ends,
not with a bang, but a whimper
~T.S. Eliot

ErikHolmes

  • Level 10
  • *
  • Posts: 394
  • Fell Points: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2010, 04:00:12 AM »
Thanks for all of the awesome feedback everyone. You guys really are a great help. I don't think I could do something like this without this group. Sorry if I haven't been around much, other projects have been keeping me busy.

The choreography was awesome.  Well passed awesome.  Unfortunetly I'm fairly sure that almost no one knows what a tan sau is off the top of their heads.    Also, it IS humanly possible to shatter/dent steel with bare hands.  The Okinawans did it to the Samurai all the time.   But no matter how you slice it I was engrossed by the awesome of face-kicking (well punching).

Also when Kajsa get's  shot, its kinda sappy.

<snip>

Also, if sigil knights are supposed to be the darklords gift to face pwning, how the heck do they beat one on their first try?  It really doesn't seem that tough.

I tried hard to get the choreography right, I'm glad you liked it. I'm still torn on how to cut the fight down a bit, I kind of wanted to just explain about a tan sau here, so that latter on I wouldn't have to. Not sure if it worked right.

And I agree that parts were a little overly sappy. I'm going to try and water those down a bit.

As for the Sigil Knights, in the game of chess they would be . . . Crom Cruach's knights.  :)

The only other thing I really had problems with was that you used colloquialisms in odd places. At one point you refer to the Knight throwing a punch at "mach two". I understand that your characters are from Earth originally (or something), but even so, most people have no real concept of mach two anyway. "His fist was a blur" conveys just as much, without the technicality of it moving 681m/s (at which point there's no dodging it, I don't care how good you are). It just kinda jars me out of the world, which is fantasy. Unless you're going for a DBZ approach, where people can move faster than light and such. I'd like to think that your story was a little more grounded in semi-reality. Then by all means, SUPERSONIC PUNCH away. :)

Kail was just using mach two as a figure of speech for, 'really fast.' FYI; Kail and Ellie are both high school kids from earth who were transported to this world a few days ago.

Also, while I wouldn't compare this setting to DBZ it is very high powered.

I also wondered what happened to the cuts on his calves. Hollywood does this all the time—someone gets hurt, but they only stay hurt for a little bit. It's like they expect you to just forget the injury, distracted by the shiny action. I realized that Kail appears to have superhuman healing in this world, and that would probably have done for the cuts, but a sentence confirming this somewhere along the way would have been nice.

<snip>

I did like this chapter. It was nice to get a bit of movement in the plot department. I feel like, more than anything, what it needs is a good line edit. Your words are good, sometimes great, but your punctuation is in all the wrong places, and it totally messes up the flow of everything. I'll get that done...sometime...and send it on to you.

Good point about the cuts on his calves. They weren't really that severe. But I should make that clearer.

As for the line edit, have I mentioned that I failed English in high school?  :D

I think that clues us in a little too quickly to the knight's demise. We know that they're going to defeat this thing in the exact same sentence that we learn it even exists. Maybe increasing Kajsa's fear of the Knight would be more effective than this line at all, especially after Kail has just seen her ripping heads off. Maybe he can think about how bad this Knight must be if someone that just destroyed an entire room of dudes is shivering scared. Also, after the battle, I think they should both just barely escape with their lives like Falcon said. I DO really like the idea of the blonde shooting her with the arrow though. Nice work!

I guess what I was trying to show was: The Sigil Knights are tough. Kajsa is tougher.

But don't worry, you'll meet someone in the next chapter or so that DOES scare Kajsa.

As usual, I loved your chapter, although I had to roll my eyes a little at these lines:

Quote
Save the world. Or save the woman I loved. What was our love, compared to the whole world? More than one world even.
Everything. That’s what.
To hell with it, the world sucked anyway. I would not let our love die.

Cheesy much?  Yes.  I'll deal with it though.

I'm thinking of just changing this to:

Quote
Save the world. Or save the woman I loved. What was our love, compared to the whole world? More than one world even.
Everything. That’s what.
To hell with it, the world sucked anyway. I wouldn't let Kajsa die.

But I might just let it brew in my head for a bit.

Hmm... I do have some questions though, things that need 'splainin.  For example, Kail has studied marshal arts, which means he's sparred before, which means he should have discovered that he can punch holes through walls already.  How does that work?  Also, you need a bit more character transition.  Killing horified Kail initially, but now he's blood thirsty?  When did that happen?

I'm actually glad that you're thinking that because its what I want. (Of course I want people to keep reading more so I'm hoping that I've managed to keep the suspension of disbelief going for now). I'm also very happy that no one's figured it out yet.  :D

Also, did he come off as bloodthirsty? I was going to callous.
Who the hell is interrupting my Kung Fu!

Recovering_Cynic

  • Level 13
  • *
  • Posts: 581
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Except vampires. Vampires suck.
    • View Profile
    • my livejournal
Re: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2010, 08:43:55 AM »
A suggestion for explaining tan sau: have Kajsa ask questions later.  She could say she's never seen a fighting style like his, and have him explain some of it, but be careful not to infodump.  Heck, she could say something while he's carrying her, and he talks to her to help keep her conscious.  Just a thought.
this is the way the world ends,
not with a bang, but a whimper
~T.S. Eliot

Dark_Prophecy

  • Level 4
  • *
  • Posts: 86
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Sweep Sweep Sweep, all day long!
    • View Profile
    • The Intelli-Gent Reviews
Re: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2010, 09:11:00 AM »
Heck, she could say something while he's carrying her, and he talks to her to help keep her conscious.  Just a thought.

I like that idea. I need to come up with better ways to disguise my infodumps in my own writing.
I like basketball, hanging out with my friends, reading, slamming a garbage can into a pimp or two with magical heavenly powers. You know, teenager stuff.

Frog

  • Level 13
  • *
  • Posts: 578
  • Fell Points: 0
  • "Have a popover, Froggie!"
    • View Profile
Re: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2010, 09:07:54 PM »
I like that we are getting a bit more plot here, but I agree with what most people have said. The fighting drags on and you ruin a lot of the tension by over-explaining it. I would want this all to be cut down a bunch. And I wonder why the first fight even needed to happen. If he was perfectly willing to go with them to see their lord, why attack him at all?

I worry about how many super powered characters you have in this bit and that you are hinting at more. I mean, if everyone is super powered already it will lose some of it's specialness and makes me wonder how any 'normal' humans manage to survive here. And also, when you tell me something is super powered and then defeat it in the same chapter, it makes you less credible as a narrator. Next time you tell me something is that super powered, I may not believe you.

As far as the 'romance,' yeah, it was pretty cheesy. Especially since these two really haven't spent that long together (yes, I shall continue to nag that point every post :P). Everything just seemed rather over dramatic for where we are in the book.

Okay, line edits coming. I think that is it!  ... for now at least. :P
I've already conquered the world. This is exactly the way I want it.

Recovering_Cynic

  • Level 13
  • *
  • Posts: 581
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Except vampires. Vampires suck.
    • View Profile
    • my livejournal
Re: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2010, 10:22:48 PM »
I thought the same thing about them not having been together that long, but then I remembered what it was like to be 18 and in love . . .   You can get away with unthinking passion at that age, to an extent.  Just don't push your reader too far, or they'll stop believing the story.
this is the way the world ends,
not with a bang, but a whimper
~T.S. Eliot

lethalfalcon

  • Level 5
  • *
  • Posts: 148
  • Fell Points: 0
  • Why won't insomnia leave me alone?
    • View Profile
Re: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2010, 10:59:43 PM »
Some people (and I speak from experience, here) did not get to experience that unbridled passion of youth... however, I can at least *understand* it. I have not read most of the rest of this story, so I can't comment on previous chapters with them, but to me, it seems "alright". Love at first sight is a common (and stupid, generally) thing, but humans prove time and time again that we're plenty capable of stupid things. :)

Now, one feeling I kinda got from the beginning of the chapter was that Kajsa wanted him for a little more than the horizontal boogy. "...and then you'll be mine." I believe was the quote (or thereabouts). That signifies a more controlling relationship, instead of "...and then we can be together". The thought that crept into my mind immediately (since I haven't read previous encounters) is that she was a demon of some sort, and they had a contract. "I'll help you now, but later, your soul is mine!"
I don't have good days. I have great days, where I'm a magician ridding the world of all evil, or at least everything I don't like. And then I wake up, and it's back to work for me.

Chaos

  • Administrator
  • Level 36
  • *
  • Posts: 2170
  • Fell Points: 3
  • The Original Hero of Ages
    • View Profile
    • Eric Lake
Re: Jan 4th - The Sword of Worlds - CH 19 - Kail
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2010, 11:16:24 PM »
It's been a long time since I've delved into Sword of Worlds.

Basically, I'm in agreement with everyone else, especially about how the piece didn't particularly flow. I thought the end of the piece worked well. All in all, it needs tightening.

Since I'm so very late to this party, I'm not going to bother with line edits :) Of course, leave it to me to always pick out the lines I enjoyed the most. This is, after all, a Kail viewpoint.

"But he was either speaking German or Klingon I was pretty sure."

The more nerdy references, the better, in my opinion.

"I felt nothing. There was no fear or panic. Not even anger. There was only the cold feeling of this moment being frozen in time. The chill air of the room against my skin, the sounds of the men I faced breathing a few feet away from me. The smell of the wooden logs and the blood on my face, the feel of packed dirt beneath my feet as they slide across the ground, turning my body slightly, putting Kajsa and the men that held her into view."

It's this kind of paragraph that really gets me into your fight scenes, by capturing emotion. I love it.

“I’m sorry, princess, but we have to get out of here. More men are coming.”

Anyone else get a vibe that Kail was delivering this line like Han Solo, with a derrogatory "princess" line in there?

"To hell with it, the world sucked anyway. I would not let our love die."

I think this whole part can be less corny by cutting "I would not let our love die". Humor deflates corniness, so leave it at that.

Moving on.

You know why I like Kail? Because he tries really hard to be intelligent. Picking up on the trap? Very good.

We also get more details about Kail's father, which I don't think we have had before.

I wish Kail was noticing that Kajsa wasn't acting earlier. That way, we know its intentional on Kajsa's part. Or at the very least, that you as an author simply haven't forgotten her :P

Not much more to say that other's already haven't. I'm very late, you see.
www.17thshard.com - The Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite.

Oh SNAP, I'm an Allomancer.