What is considered good book sales?

[guessingo]

If you write a first book, what kind of sales would you need to get a second book contract? I know how much each book sells can vary radically. Take out JK Rowling or Stephanie Meyer, what does a well known, but not-Robert Jordan/Terry Goodkind/Terry Brooks typically sell?

Any idea about LE Modesitt, Stephen Erickson, Weis and Hickman?

What kind of marketing do publishers do for books? The only marketing I ever see are for the biggest name books. I saw some TV adds for the new Wheel of Time book. It seems like the only advertising is convincing Barnes and Noble to put it in a featured location in the store.

What kind of sales do you need for a publisher to pay for you to go on a book signing tour?

[guessingo]

please move this to the books forum. I posted it in the wrong place. I can't delete my own thread.

thanks.

[Bookstore Guy]

Erikson has poor US sales.  His UK sales, however, are among the best--he's huge over there.  As for first time authors, I dunno.  I'd say if you make back your advance and then some, then you did fine.

[Sigyn]

It also matters how big your publishing run is (I think this is the right term).  If you had a small publishing run but it sells out then that can possibly be better than having a bigger publishing run that doesn't sell out.

[Silk]

Genre matters as well. Don't know hard numbers, though, sorry.

[ErikHolmes]

I'm not positive about these numbers but I'm pretty sure that between 5,000 - 10,000 books sold is considered a success.

But it depends on a lot of things. Those numbers are for a first time fantasy or sci-fi novel, assuming that you got the standard $10,000 dollar advance. (I think).

I believe Stephanie Meyer received $750,000 for her first advance. Which was a contract for the first 3 Twilight books. I'm assuming that anything less than 200,000 sales for her first book would have been considered an epic failure.

So if you were published by Tor, I'm thinking a few thousand copies of your first book sold would be considered a good sign. If it was a smaller publisher then you'd need a lot less.

I've heard Brandon say that you can hit the New York Times Bestselling list with as few as 10,000 hardcover sales.

[guessingo]

As far as the new york times, isnt that 10,000 sales in a week? Not overall. So you make $25,000 your first week of sales and then get on the list.

I would think that most first time authors do not even get a hardcover. They get trade paper back or regular paperback. 5,000 paperback sales is $2500 or so in royalties or $15,000 in hardcover royalties. Don't quit your day job. I would think it would take 3,000+ hours of work minimum for a first novel (not including all the writing you did just to learn how to write). That is less than illegal aliens make. Wow. You have to really love it to be an author.

I would assume that most first time authors do not get sent for book tours. Doesn't sound worth the cost.

How do they market first time authors? Especially someone who is not Stephanie Meyer. Is it lobbying Barnes and Noble to put the book at the front of the store? That is how I learn about most new books... That and seeing a cool cover and title is what gets my attention. That and begging people for quotes. How did Brandon get Robin Hobbs to read his book in order to give him a quote? Is it because he is friends with David Farland?

I would think Fantasy is hard also for a first time authors. As a long time reader of fantasy, most blurbs on the cover of fantasy books look the same. Atleast sci-fi books can be about very different topics and that can be shown on the blurb on the book.

My guess about making money as a writer is that it takes time for people to learn about you and for you to make a name for yourself. It probably also helps alot to make a nice website and a blog. I had  never heard of John Scalzi until someone sent me to his blog.

I would never have quit my job to write full time for the $10,000 that Brandon got in an advance. I would want to see if people actually liked my books before I wrote full time.

Then on top of the small chance for any chance of financial success you have to deal with

1. amazon decided to pull the buy button
2. someone mad for some reason because your book isn't available on kindle giving you a 1 star review (if you are a new author you probably don't get alot of reviews
3. people telling you, that you suck publicly.

I have to say authors have a lot of guts.

BTW, so do other genre's than Sci-Fi/fantasy on average sell better? That is surprising. Most of the top selling movies are sci-fi/fantasy, but the novels don't sell as well. Which is interesting. Might be in part because there are so many of them.

How does an editor know when they see Stephanie Meyer's book that it would sell so well? I actually did not hear of her until her 3rd book or so when it was on TV. How did they market Stephanie Meyer?

[Silk]

Just answering what I know here...

Some genres do sell better, yes. Again, I don't have hard numbers, but it's not really that surprising when you consider that fantasy/sci-fi is a fairly niche market.

Regarding blurbs: As far as I understand it, you (the author) or your agent writes to the authors you're hoping to get blurbs from. If the authors agree to read your book, you send it to them. If the authors like your work, they'll blurb it. 

Note that I'm not a hundred per cent sure on the process, but I think that's how it goes.

Books end up on the front tables of Barnes & Noble (or wherever) because publishers pay for it. That's called co-op. Whether or not you get it will depend on how much money your publisher has to throw around on you and whether or not they think you're a big enough deal to spring for.

Again, my understanding may be less than perfect.

[guessingo]

I did not realize that publishers paid for product placement in stores. I figured that stores put books they think will sell best at the front of the store since it is in their interest to push books.

These forums are very interesting. I am glad I stumbled on them.

[Bookstore Guy]

Romance sells more than SF & F.  So does the Mystery/Thriller genre (especially if you lump Stephen King in with it even thought he is Horror).  We talked about this in a conference at the Borders HQ.

[guessingo]

Lately Stephen King has done alot of Science Fiction. Under the Dome and The Dark Tower. I am not sure that The Stand is really horror.

I am stunned that Romance sells better than Sci-Fi. I thought it was 95% women that bought Romance? I don't think Sci-Fi/Fantasy is 95% men. I know a lot of women who like Sci-Fi.

This is surprising considering that most of the highest grossing movies are Sci-Fi/Fantasy. It seems like the best selling Fantasy are the cross over fantasy that takes place in the Real World (Stephanie Meyer, JK Rowling, Southern Vampire, Supernatural type books). These books are either geared towards young adults and/or have romance in them to bring in women.

I have mainly been interested in Sci-Fi/Fantasy and historical Novels(ancient and miedievil history). There are exceptions, I really liked Tom Clancy's earlier books (he later stuff is bloated junk that may have been written by Ghost writers).

[ErikHolmes]

I am stunned that Romance sells better than Sci-Fi. I thought it was 95% women that bought Romance? I don't think Sci-Fi/Fantasy is 95% men. I know a lot of women who like Sci-Fi.

Not only does romance sell better, I've been told its like 50% of the entire market. But most romance novels don't make a lot of money. The industry just spits them out like crazy, but only a few romance series are new york times bestsellers.

[guessingo]

Is romance almost entirely women? I think it is.

So if you get a first book contract, you are hoping for atleast 5,000 copies sold so you get a second book contract? Then you have to make your own website and market yourself right?