same old topic: dating sucks, and so does pressure

[fuzzyoctopus]

Now, for Ookla's sake, tell him how old you are.  14 was it, or 15?


Also, in general?  The way to respond to someone who's really upset about something is never to say "Hey, just stop worrying about it."  

[Maxwell]

uh I'm 16
but really it's not that he's worrying too much , just thinking too much, I mean the way to meet people is out in the world not on the internet, searching for them by interest. some of the happiest couples I know have nothing in common.

[stacer]

I actually agree about internet dating. I don't use that site for dating, more for the same kind of thing I use TWG for--hanging out with friends. I used to like its message boards for that reason, which is why the constant senseless banter frustrates me.

And I also agree that hanging out sometimes works. But what you wouldn't understand at your age is that as you get older, people get more guarded. So even someone like me, who has always been and still considers herself fairly open emotionally, easygoing, etc., can get really frustrated with the whole situation. I really don't think he's overstating the situation. LDS dating when you're over 25 can be extremely annoying.

And another thing: it can be very hard to meet someone who is LDS and who shares not only your same values but who you're compatible with personally, especially if you're kind of unique and quirky. Yes, you get out and you do stuff. But if you'll read back, Ookla *does* get out. He *does* do a number of things that get him out there meeting people.

One thing I would say, though, Ookla--in relation to a thread you once posted about a month or so ago, part of dating is being interested in other people, even if you don't particularly think they have/do anything you're interested in at first. I find that the more I talk to people, the more I find we have common ground somewhere, and the more I am interested in what they do, the more interesting they become to me, and I learn about things I never thought to want to learn about.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Yeah but there are alternatives to church events when you reach a certain age... especially in the west where the member population is high. Clubs and hobby groups can be great places to meet people (and you have the added bonus of having something in common) and in many ways at an advanced age they tend to be a better place to meet people than church events. People in clubs tend to be a little less guarded because they are doing what they like to do.  Living in the LA area Ookla should have no problem finding people who share his interests.

[stacer]

That's true. One thing I loved about BYU was the sheer number of people there who were LDS, so I didn't have to rely on my ward for friendships (though I still made most of my friends through my ward). TLE, for example, was great. I wish I had discovered it before my last year there.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Yeah in Greensboro the single member population was absurdly low. Our stake had maybe 2 dozen or so active singles, some of them commuting from as far as Eden NC (almost 45 minutes to an hour away) It wasn't unusual for singles to go to dances in Raliegh (an hour + away) or Charlotte (the same) just to meet new people. Thats rough dating... if you stick to members that is...

[House of Mustard]

May I play Devil's Advocate here?

Ookla, you obviously sound like you really do want to get married.  If that is the case, then why are you fighting so much against the system?  True, dating is not perfect, and neither are singles wards, but, at the present time, they're probably your best option for getting married.  (How many people in the world get married by NOT dating?)

Here's the thing: If dating is hard enough, then why are you setting up even more obstacles for yourself?  The "date splitting" idea seems like it will only impede your dating attempts, not ease them.  When I met my wife, I didn't call her again for a couple weeks, but she has told me that if I hadn't finally called her for a second date, she would have NEVER called me--not because she didn't like me, just because she's shy.  Insisting that girls ask you for the second date seems like it's only DEcreasing your chances.  Fighting an ideological battle against the concept and practices of LDS dating is NOT going to get you married any time soon.

Along those same lines, why do you insist on finding a free online dating service?  The membership costs are relatively low (about the same you'd spend on dinner and a movie).  And pay sites are more likely to lead you to people who are serious about getting into a relationship.

Like I said, just playing Devil's Advocate.

[42]

Well, Ookla, I sympathize. I just got back from my older brother's wedding in Nauvoo. He's finally gotten married at age 34. And now that he's married, I am now the oldest unmarried child. I can't tell you the number of times I was asked: "When are you getting married?", "Where's your girlfriend?", "Who are you dating?", and the ever so sensitive, "Why aren't you married?"

To be fair, my brother who just got married, didn't even date his wife until after a year of emailing each other. They did the whole long distance relationship thing that everyone says doesn't work. They were set up by my parents. My Dad just so happened to be her singles' ward bishop and my Mom just likes to meddle.

So now I have a lot of pressure from my family to get married. This even after I explained that I'm recovering from a nervous break-down and it just may not be the right time for me to meet someone and get married. Am I working on getting married? Yes. Does it mean that I'm dating lots of people and am likely to get engaged soon? No. Would I like to be married? Yes. Am I in a situation to get married? Not currently. Am I trying to get into a sitation where I can get married? Yes. People in LDS culture just seem to over-simplify the whole process of finding an eternal companion.

I also spent a lot of time arguing with some of my relatives that have no clue what it's like to be in your late twenties and still be single. It's just not the same as your early twenties. For one, in your late-twenties priorities just aren't the same. Another is that you don't have time/interest to waist on dating people just for the sake of dating. Kind of goes with having a clearer idea of what your looking for and being more experienced in having crappy/fruitless relationships.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Im glad I never went through that.
After my parents divorce, both of my parents had trouble advising me about my dating life. Or at least thinking they could meddle in it.

So I meandered and finally found the girl of my dreams...

[Tekiel]

Not to change the subject, but I went to that site fuzzy put up and one of the first people I saw was a guy in my ward!  I haven't laughed that hard in a while.  Not at him, but that I actually recognize someone on the site.  It was too funny.

[fuzzyoctopus]

They did the whole long distance relationship thing that everyone says doesn't work.

Hey! It does so work, you just have to have the right relationship to start with.  Also, it sucks.  But it works.

/me nods

[fuzzyoctopus]

Gah!  I just watched another stupid commerical for "Outback Jack" and it hit me!

A Mormon reality dating show.  We can make millions and find dates for people at the same time!

</tounge in cheek>

[Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock]

It would probably help if both the males and females weren't so secretive about whom they liked and did not. And weren't so apoxtrisitioned to appropiate your feelings. Maybe things would be easier then. But for now, i will stay confused and lacklustered.

[House of Mustard]

But Gemm, if dating made sense, where's the fun in that?

[GorgonlaVacaTremendo]

I would like to play devils advocate for a while.  So I will....

Girls are not expected to exert any effort toward getting married. Guys are always ragged on.

Women have to go on dates.  Women have to find a man just like men need to find a woman.  The only difference between our searches is that men usually ask the women out, which isn't always true anymore anyway.

Personally I've decided on something that I will use the next time I see someone I'm actually interesting in getting to know better for the purpose of mate selection evaluation: date splitting. I'll ask her out and provide for whatever it is I want to do on the date. But then if she wants to go out again, she has to be the one to ask. And she has to provide for everything on the second date. And if there is to be a third, then it's my turn. And so forth. Also, if any girl happens to ask me out (Society Forbid), then I will expect her to privide for it and be quite happy to return the favor for date #2. [I have yet to decide whether in this system 2 dates should be mandatory in all fairness.]

I find this system to be stupid.  I am sorry, but that is my opinion.  This is because you are complaining about being able to get a date and you are lowering your chances of having a second date.  Imagine telling a girlfriend, "Okay, next time you pay, call me..."

And then something that would maybe be enough of a different problem that it would do for a separate thread, but--it sucks how it's impossible to tell if someone is even interested in looking to get married, or even if they are already seriously dating someone else. Now, in Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan books there's a very interesting system mentioned approximately twice that is used by the Betans--the very liberal planet--where girls will wear different kinds of earrings signifying their status: looking for something serious, looking for something casual, involved in a serious committed relationship, etc. No mention of whether guys wear earrings too (such would be only fair), but something like this would be a great improvement over our current absence of any signs beyond the engagement/wedding ring thing. I'm not suggesting that earrings would be the best way to do it but it's something that would make the answer quite obvious and it seems to me it would be quite effective.

Having a society-wide system of dating is riduculous to ask because there is no way it could ever happen.  You would not be able to convince millions of people to dress a certain way or wear something just because you want other people to know what their status is.  While the system itself seems like an idea that would work, using it for an entire society would not.

Argh. Here's really what I'd prefer: a national mandatory database of people who want to get married, where you say exactly what you're looking for, and a computer hooks you up. Lying punishable by stiff fines--but other than that it would be free. The church should run it.

Nothing national should be run by any church.  As an athiest I would NEVER give any of my information to anything run by a church to help them with their religion, simply because I should not have to go out of my way, in any shape or form, to work for something that I not only don't believe in, but personally think is a ridiculous concept.  

As Americans we should never have to date by a computer if we don't want to either.  Even if it was not church run, ect., I would rather find someone I like personally than have a computer "hook me up".  Having a manditory database of Americans would make this something of the past, and make it become a system I wouldn't like, and don't even like to think about.  If you want a computer to hook you up, go to a dating service.

Also, I wouldn't want my taxes pumped up for a system that I didn't plan on using.  And I wouldn't want my taxes going to a church.  So having an optional national database wouldn't work either.  If you want to use a computer it looks like you will have to stick with dating services.