Author Topic: December 21 -- Recovering Cynic -- Discharge -- Short story  (Read 1701 times)

Recovering_Cynic

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December 21 -- Recovering Cynic -- Discharge -- Short story
« on: December 21, 2009, 08:38:34 PM »
Alright, before you review the story, you need to know a few things:  First, I initially intended this to be a short story (roughly 20 pages max).  Second, at the point where I stopped (the portion you just read), I realized that there was no way I could make the story what I wanted it to be in 20 pages.  It would probably take twice that, or more.  And last, I also realized I wasn't entirely sure what I wanted to do with it.  I had a vague idea, and I was hoping that the story would flesh itself out and draw to a close.  Unfortunately, it did not.

With all of the above in mind, please give me feed back on anything and everything, but also try to answer the following questions:

1) Do you see a way of wrapping this thing up in another ten pages?  On a related note, where do you see the story going at this point?
2) Part of the plot requires a lack of emotion . . . which also kills part of the draw of the story.  How do you get around that?
3) Related to the last question: is the emotion-deadening plot idea feasible?  Is there enough there to flesh out a viable story, be it short or long?

Thanks :)
this is the way the world ends,
not with a bang, but a whimper
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ryos

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Re: December 21 -- Recovering Cynic -- Discharge -- Short story
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2009, 10:18:12 AM »
There's a lot to like in this story. The technology is sweet and well-used, and the characters are convincing and lifelike. I loved the concept of the deadhead, and the arbiter acting as external conscience. It's a great hook. The hostage situation is pretty run-of-the-mill, or, at least, it hasn't yet been revealed as anything more than it appears. What do the perps want? What's the point of taking the hostages in the way they have? We don't have even an inkling, which will make it tough to answer your questions. Still, I will try.

1) Here's a list of things that need to happen, as I see it:
  • We need a payoff to Walken's promise to rein Escobar in. Happyman has to get nuts. The obvious way to do this is for him to start taking out the perps with little regard for the safety of the hostages, and have collateral damage blow up in his face. The tranq presents a problem. It turns Escobar into a dead weight that the squad can ill afford to carry, and after he goes under, his squadmates are going to get screwed. They'll either have to withdraw or will be killed themselves, leaving Escobar behind.
  • We need a motive for the perps. There's not enough here for me to have many ideas; the best I can do is this: have this whole thing be a trap set up to capture Union technology. Escobar as a hostage means mission accomplished for the perps; they can dump or kill the hostages and bolt.
  • We need to see Escobar come out from under the cocktail and experience his hell.

These three things suggest a quick resolution to me. Make the tranq a short dose, lasting a scant few minutes. The idea is to course-correct a malfunctioning machine, but that machine is in a life-or-death situation and needs to come back online quickly. The perps do not know this. They don't think they have time to separate Escobar from his technology, but that they do have plenty of time with him unconscious, so they grab him and get out.

Well, they start to get out, anyway, but on the way, Escobar wakes up. Someone is dragging him. He sees his comrades gone or dead; he sees the civilian carnage that he himself wreaked, and, worst of all, his emotion cocktail is fading. Real, natural, blinding rage fills the void of his emotions. He rips off his deadhead (so his handler can't rein him in), then goes berserk on his captors. He is not successful, and takes a mortal wound. As awareness fades, and his remaining captors begin again to drag him out, Sara Walken shares a brief moment with him inside his head before pushing the self-destruct button on his suit, destroying the technology and him with it. The end.

Now, that's just an outsider's casual swipe at the problem. It may suck, but since it's 2AM I can't really tell. Seems like it would work to me.

2) You can do a lot with that. It's the primary draw of the story. Just because the Happyman's emotions are deadened doesn't mean ours are. We can see what's going on, can feel what Escobar should be but can't, and that contrast is really cool.

3) Again, yes. I think you could do more with this very neat concept than you currently have.

In critique of the piece itself, a lot of your language is rough and awkward. The cadence of many phrases, particularly spoken dialogue, is unnatural. A few well-placed commas would go a very long way towards correcting this. Really, this needs a good line edit, but I don't want to mess with it until I have a complete draft in front of me.
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Recovering_Cynic

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Re: December 21 -- Recovering Cynic -- Discharge -- Short story
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2009, 04:30:38 PM »
Thanks Ryos.  I like your ideas--some of them I had already planned on using, but others I hadn't thought of.  You pointed out one or two promises I hadn't realized I was making.  I also realized that about 10 pages in, I stopped having fun with the story, which means I need to chop about two pages.

Again, thanks.

P.S.  You don't mind if I run with some of the ideas you suggested, do you?  I'm going to wait to get other feedback before I touch this thing again, so I'm not sure which ideas I might settle on.  If I end up using some of yours, do you care?  'Cause I really like some of them.
this is the way the world ends,
not with a bang, but a whimper
~T.S. Eliot

ryos

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Re: December 21 -- Recovering Cynic -- Discharge -- Short story
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2009, 08:38:51 PM »
P.S.  You don't mind if I run with some of the ideas you suggested, do you?  I'm going to wait to get other feedback before I touch this thing again, so I'm not sure which ideas I might settle on.  If I end up using some of yours, do you care?  'Cause I really like some of them.

Be my guest. It'd be a little silly for me to suggest things to you if I didn't want you to use them. ;)
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LongTimeUnderdog

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Re: December 21 -- Recovering Cynic -- Discharge -- Short story
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2009, 07:27:32 PM »
The "emotionless part" was so well brought up in advance in the piece, and so well prepared for that it was great.  It didn't just work . . .it was great.  In fact the whole thing was great.  Way better then your other story (sorry).  You should probably consider switching to full time guns and thugs instead of swords and magic.  Seriously, this was way passed awesome into the "WHY DID YOU STOP," land.

Okay um things to improve . . .  ummmmmm.

Okay, I know this is supposed to be a short story but a large part of me wants this to be "Chapter 1."  As a "chapter 1" I don't think anyone could resist moving on to chapter 2.  It's just that good.   I do want to know more about the guns, but, but I don't need to.  wanting to know more about them is a person "I like toys," thing.  I never once was confused or in question of what was going on, how things were used, what kind of munitions they had, save for one thing.  I did want to know more about the suits they were wearing.  We get the idea they have hats that stick endorphin needles in your neck and play with your brain waves to make you interpret the chemicals a certain way, and that's super neat.  (in case you didn't know, physiologically, all emotions are the exact same chemical reaction.  How they are distinguished is by how the person interprets them).    But all we really have about them in is the hat.  What about the rest of the suit?

Anyway, back to the praise.  Was COOOOL.

Edit:  Hold on, I haven't praised it enough.

I felt really sad when Jax bought the farm.

I think Happy man is silly considering his love of Joy when he's shooting people.  It made him really likable (in some kind of morbid way).It was so much fun to read. 

« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 08:32:52 PM by LongTimeUnderdog »

Chaos

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Re: December 21 -- Recovering Cynic -- Discharge -- Short story
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2009, 05:21:06 AM »
I agree with everything that has already been said.

There is a lot of good here. The tinkering with emotions is really interesting. I think you can do a lot more to capitalize on that. Like, what is his emotional state before the cocktail, and the severe effects it has. Change is really fun, so definitely use it. As ryos said, we definitely need to have Walken do something extremely active. That promise must be fulfilled.

I can't really say anything negative at this point. I like it. I need an ending before I can do any more.

That said, the mission doesn't feel important. Well, hmmm... how can I say it? It does, in the mind of the characters (which is good), but I'm not feeling anything special about it. This mission feels generic, which makes it rather difficult to craft a proper ending. The way I'd structure it is introduce a plot driven conflict early, then place the character in direct opposition to that. This way, Act 3 of the piece can be really fun, and we can have a punch-in-the-face ending.

If we're doing a short story (though I agree with LTU; you could definitely make this into a novel. See below), that ending needs foreshadowing from the very beginning. Some mystery, or something. Your main conflict as of right now is the stuff regarding the emotions, as well as Sara's interactions with that. Therefore, the ending should deal with that. In its current state, I would not want to see the ending with "Oh, the perps want Union technology". Considering you added that aspect very late, we need an ending revelation pretty quick to deepen the conflict, but the Union technology ultimately doesn't matter directly to our main character.

I do think you can make this into a novel, once you properly deepen the setting and characters. One thing you could capitalize upon is the idea of memory wipes. You could easily make a novel start off with this mission, and have it be sort of an "opening stunt" like you see in Bond movies. But, something really terrible happens, which makes Escobar want to memory wipe. You can work with that, and there can be some fun interactions on a novel level.

But you don't want to write a novel right now. That's okay. You can still utilize that memory wipe thing as a conflict. Like, why does Escobar keep his memories, when he wouldn't have to? Especially if truly terrible things have happened. This, this you can work with. I don't know how, but that's the other piece of technology you've introduced (the main one being the emotional tampering). Use it.

All in all, what this story needs is a definable turning point where the character changes. Something that is surprising, yet inevitable. That's the key element that you must have. Right now the story is cool, but it's fairly linear. A good turning point will sell the rest of the story. Make it personal to Escobar, affecting him. He has to change on some level, whether it is from "soldier" to "murderer" or from a guy who uses emotional cocktails who transforms into not needing them any more. Those are just some ideas. I don't know what's right for the story. But! If you have the character change and have the characters react realistically to that event, well, no matter what the resolution happens to be, it can't be that bad :P

Escobar works as a character for a short story, but he doesn't have internal conflict right now. It works for the short story. Novels, if you were to go that route, need more. In fact, now that I think about it, a little deepening of his character could go a long way. Give us a glimpse into both his motivations and his expectation. Why he does what he does [You can say he does the things he does because of the cocktail, but you don't explain his motivation for wanting it, if he can go in clean. Benefits and risks... you can explore these, too. A pre-cocktail look into Escobar could go a lot for understanding who this guy is].

That's all I have for now. Good work. Seriously.
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Recovering_Cynic

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Re: December 21 -- Recovering Cynic -- Discharge -- Short story
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2009, 04:56:22 PM »
Thank you so much for the praise everyone!  I agree that this needs to be a novel, not a short story, and that is kinda why I stopped writing it.  I had enough of an idea to maybe eek out a short story, but that's it.  I hadn't sat down to work through enough of a plot to make a novel.

I have two concerns about taking it the next step and making it a novel.   First, I am out of touch with sci-fi.  I haven't read the genre in years, really.  I am not current enough to know if I am duplicating something.  Second, sci-fi, as a genre, is not doing well, and therefore it is hard to publish.  I'm not sure I want to write an unpublishable novel, even if it is really good.

Still, you are all right; there is soooo much to work with here.
this is the way the world ends,
not with a bang, but a whimper
~T.S. Eliot

LongTimeUnderdog

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Re: December 21 -- Recovering Cynic -- Discharge -- Short story
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2009, 05:11:54 PM »
With Avatar and District 9, Sci fi might be making a come-back.

Chaos

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Re: December 21 -- Recovering Cynic -- Discharge -- Short story
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2009, 03:12:07 AM »
I'm out of touch with sci-fi, too. I never thought I'd want to write sci-fi, yet... ideas are appearing in my head. I will be writing sci-fi on some scale (whether short or long form), someday. My advice is to write what you are passionate about. If this story excites you, it deserves to be told to the best of your abilities!

And this may seem callous, but this is the plan I'm working from: it doesn't matter. They say a million practice words, right? The first book you finish probably won't be publishable (though I like to think Reading Excuses will help the revision process enormously ;) ), and maybe the second and third ones won't, either. As long as you have the will to continue telling stories, well heck? What's holding you back from writing something cool and different? If it's bad, the world doesn't have to see it, and you improve your craft doing it. You might find that you like guns and thugs, as LTU puts it, far better than those silly fantasy concepts. It may just open doors that you never thought were there in the first place.

As for the "scifi isn't selling"... well, if you treat the book as an experiment, it won't matter. Though, last I heard Scalzi is doing a really good job writing science fiction, and it's alive and well.

Go for it!
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Re: December 21 -- Recovering Cynic -- Discharge -- Short story
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2009, 07:10:17 AM »
You introduced all of the characters very clearly and with some nice detail, but I wonder if you could do it in less of a lump, since the first page is almost all description of the characters and not much else. It's interesting description and a page isn't a huge amount of time, but I sitll wonder if it would be worth it to try and sc atter some of those descriptions you've got throughout the rest of the text. They look like the sorts of details that wouldn't be too hard to move along.

The beginning of the story seemed to be a bit of a hurdle to get over, in that you were dropping a lot ofreferences, either technical ones or historical ones, that I didn't really know about or understand. I'm kind of letting the Philidelphia reference slide because it seemed like it was a piece of history that might come later, but perhaps even some of the conversation around that could be cleared up some. What does "wiping" mean in that context, for example? Escobar talks about Jax being a "tp whore" but I'm guessing it doesn't have a whole lot to do with actual toilet paper.

It might not hurt to throw in explanations or at least hints of some of the other story-specific terms you're using. Certainly you don't need to explain all of them, but it feels like a lot is going on that I don't know.

I don't have too much too say about this so far, so onto your questions...

Is there enough here for a viable story? Sure.

Can you finish it in another ten pages? It's kind of a fallacy to answer this, since I have no idea where you want the story to go from here, but... Probably not.

How to make the emotion-deadening thing work: Well, one thing you could focus on is the intellectual reaction to the lack of emotion (or the altered emotions, at least, which seems more accurate to your story). Given that most of the emotion altering/deadening seems to take place during high-adrenaline situations, though, that might not be too relevant.

That's another thing you can do, is keep the deadhead scenes as high in adrenalin and tension as you can. The absurdity of this guy giggling and cheerful as he runs through a scene of carnage is a good image to hold onto as well.

But mostly I imagine you'll want to be focused on what happens after the cocktail wears off. There should be some pretty heavy ramifications for that, and part of the draw as we go through the story should be wondering how he'll deal with whatever happens, whatever he's done, and whatever he does or doesn't feel, afterwards.

I don't have much in the way of suggestions for where this is going from here; I don't really feel that there's enough yet for me to try drawing it forward. (Which is why I said that I don't think you can wrap this up in another ten pages.)

Here's a thought which may or may not work for you (with what you've given us so far, I'm not sure whether I would end up using it if I were writing this):is it possible to develop a dependency on the deadhead cocktail?

Again, just a thought. I think that someone could do a lot with that idea, but I don't know if it's for you.

Oh, and do any of the emotions that Escobar's messing around with ever come into conflict with one another? Do they ever somehow conflict with the sense of duty that the arbiters won't let him mess with?

That said, some responses to what others have said...

I agree with Ryos's list. Motives for the perps, if nothing else, will let us know what's at stake, and therefore raise the tension. It'd tell us a little more about your world, too, and that wouldn't hurt either. We need to see Happy go a little nuts. And we absolutely need to see what happens when the cocktail wears off. From what you'd given us so far I'm thinking that that's what the story is about.

It's really hard to say without knowing what happens between here and the end, and more importantly without seeing the execution of the thing, but I'm not sure I'd be satisfied with Happy dying at the end. Seems a bit like an easy way out.

Okay, I must be stupid. I TOTALLY missed that Jax was talking about wiping his memory there. One more reason to never trust me as a beta reader. Sigh.

Thought: Just because you could very easily draw some of these ideas and/or characters out and use them in a novel does not mean that this particular story has to be a novel. Personally,  I don't think I've seen enough of this piece to make that kind of judgement. Cynic, obviously, may have a better idea. :P

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Re: December 21 -- Recovering Cynic -- Discharge -- Short story
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2010, 06:33:16 AM »
Okay, I'm way behind in critiquing so I am going to skip through the earlier comments for now. Forgive me if there are to many repeats here.

Line edits/comments on their way. Overall impression was that while I don't often enjoy sci-fi, the story seems to be coming well enough. Character seemed alright and I think you sufficiently explained the lack of emotion. I had some minor concerns about all the terms you were using w/o a lot of explanation by the end, but that is a pretty easy fix.

Biggest concern I had is that at this point I really don't see what set this particular mission should be different from the thousands this group has been on. I could see some of it getting bad with Jax dying and such, but without even a guess on the motive of the perps or something to make this mission standout, it all sounds like it should be routine for those in this line of work. And since I'm not sure what your building towards, so I can't really give you much in the way of expectations. You spent enough time with your character that I expecting most of the conflict to be internal or just very personal, but I am not sure what that might all imply. :/

Yeah, sorry if this isn't very helpful in planning your dramatic ending, but you seem to be off to a good start at least. Good luck.
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