Author Topic: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*  (Read 62213 times)

RicksterBLM

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2009, 09:25:37 PM »
Amazing book, couldnt put it down

I did have one question.  since when did Tam join Perrin?  is that something i missed in a previous book or is that something that will happen in Towers of Midnight when we get the full perrin/matt/elayne arcs?

jjb

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2009, 09:46:25 PM »
Tam, along with other Two Rivers men, joined Perrin when they attacked the Aiel camp to get Faile.

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2009, 10:41:01 PM »
Ah, I had written a long reply in some other forum... And, yes, I registered so I can reply to this thread :D
I hope I don't come out as a spammer - I really do have a lot to say about the book :)

The book was really awesome. I am easily placing it on par with the first Wheel of Time books - the ones the entire WoT community agrees were the best ones. The setting is definitely darker, something I am starting to identify as Sanderson's style, but the original WoT feeling is still strong - the men are still wool-headed, the women are still flaming :D

One thing I noticed - despite the fact that we have the standard viewpoint characters, only few of them actually have developing story lines. Rand changes a lot (I'll talk about him specifically below), but even though Mat and Perrin travel quite a bit themselves, there is no real change in their characters. There is a conflict brewing in Perrin, and there is something about Mat becoming... what was it, husbandry? But that was all from them... Much like Nynaeve, Suian, and even Tuon (Fortuona, anyone?). Yes, there was some action, but... not really.

Now, let's talk Rand. OMGWTFBBQ! I felt so... so... so excited when he touched the True Power. Vengeance incarnate, ladies and gentlemen, vengeance incarnate. The reference how he had leveled up from steel to cuendillar felt a little weird, but I get the point. Sanderson definitely did an awesome job making me hate on of the characters I previously loved so much - which was supposed to happen, of course, otherwise the ending wouldn't be as good as it is. But back to Rand's hardness - I was scared for the boy. The decisions he started making, the fear he instilled, the ruthlessness that started to show up, and the brutal coldness were all very interesting shifts in character. Yes, he was rough before, but after that encounter with Semirhage things just started to get plain scary.

One thing I loved about this change though - Lews Therin. Telamon has always been my number one favorite character in the series, despite the fact that he is... a little dead. Seeing more of his sane part, seeing him think of himself as "we" now, and seeing Rand use the occasional "us" instead of "me" were all indication that there is a merge in personalities between the two - thereby fulfilling Min's vision from a few books back. Lews Therin growing more sane, Rand going more insane; Lews Therin reacting to events from Rand's life (how he added Elmindreda Farshaw and Ilyena Therin Moerelle  to Rand's list, how they discussed the Dark One's imprisonment...), and Rand starting to actually feel, instead of just remember events from Lews Therin's life (the palace, Ilyena, referring to Moridin as Elan, ...) - brilliant.

And going even further down the path - the moment when Rand destroyed Graendal. Intense. I expected him to do something like this, but seeing it happen, and how he shrugged it off - gives you the shivers.

And, of course, the ending. How he almost killed Tam, how he couldn't bring himself to destroy the Seanchan, and the contemplations on the top of the Dragonmount. I must admit, I was worried all the way until Lews Therin said "Why? Could it be... so that we can have a second chance." That's when I knew almost with certainty that there will be redemption for Rand. I was half hoping the last chapter will be Rand Traveling to Tear or Caemlyn, rushing into the room where Min/Elayne was, and just hugging her tight, laughing genuinely all along. For the sheer surprise of him doing something that would've been so out-of-character a few chapters ago.

[Other users' replies]

Rand slaying Moridin makes too much sense, it is too logical to be the answer :D

The two women to complete Rand's circle... Yea, we have quite a few to choose from. Elayne, Avhienda, Egwene, Moiraine. I am not sure how Rand will feel about Aes Sedai in the next book - his distrust came from his paranoia that everybody wants to control him. I have a feeling he won't be the same ass after his revelations at the end. Maybe, just maybe, this aspect of him will change too...

Now, the note Verin left to Mat - and many others, I would guess - baffle me. I didn't pay attention to how much had passed after their meeting and Verin's death, but the Brown sounded like she planned to come back. It didn't look like she intended to waste much time in the place she was going to visit. Of course, the author could have deceived us easily, or Verin could have not known about how things would go in the White Tower, but something still bugs me about the whole story. As far as the action letter goes, I haven't a single idea. It's a set of instructions, telling Mat to do... what? Go somewhere? Meet with Rand ASAP? Find Perrin? Those are somewhat obvious, so I'll rule them out. It probably has to do with the Black Ajah/Forsaken, and maybe a plot against Mat. We'll see, and I think we'll be surprised.

Asmodean... as I mentioned in the previous thread, I think Brandon knows who killed him. And knowing Jordan, we'll probably learn too... very close to the end of Memory of Light.

[In response to a reply that mentioned ToM's status bar indicating 70%] Brandon can write fast. I've been keeping an eye on the progress bar, and he's moved 15-20% in the last month. I think we can expect Towers of Midnight sometime next Spring. Summer at latest.

Egwene's story line was intriguing to me as well. I think she handled the situations well, and grew quite a bit as a character. I only wish Elaida had performed better - her downfall from the last...2-3 books has been tremendous. Unreal even. I just can't imagine how Elaida from the first few books, that strong, emotionless and regal woman could turn into this... child, throwing tantrums, and not being able to neither think, nor reason. I hope we get to see more from her, even captured by the Seanchan. Maybe a heroic rescue?

[More users' replies]

It seems likely that Mat will be the instrument of peace-forging between Rand's empire and Seanchan. I hadn't thought of that, although it's fairly intuitive.

I don't think Perrin is with Rand. Verin had no reasons to drag him along too, and I don't think he would abandon his army. And there was indication than an entire army has arrived in the city, so it's safe to assume that he is still traveling normally.

Rand and the True Power... I am not sure how I feel about that. Or what I think. Rand wasn't quite sure what he was accessing - it looked like he knew, but completely ignored the consequences of it. But now that there is no longer distinction between him and Lews Therin, I think he'll be careful using it; after all Lews Therin was feeling stabs of panic every time Rand would even think about this Source.

As for the saa and who can touch this Power, it looked like Rand just seized the power. It might have been given to him by the Dark One in an attempt to tempt him and then break him (which nearly happened), but it looked like he just took it. If this is correct, then the Dark One, in a way, tells the Forsaken how to access the True Power, and is usually not mad at them if they use it. But Rand didn't need neither permission, nor guidance - he just grabbed it. So this event is either a very interesting plan of the Dark One, or a huge hindrance for him.

Also, about Moridin - he sounded tired in the dream. If Rand was more civil, the two would really like old friends chatting before the fireplace. I wonder what such unwillingness to destroy Lews Therin implies...

[And even more replies]

Here's a thought about Seanchan. Rand saw that the people in his empire are unhappy. He also saw the the lands ruled by the Seanchan prosper. We know that he has to kneel before the Crystal Throne. I am starting to think that he will give up control in his lands - fulfilling the prophecy - and focus on his own battles against the Forsaken and the Shadow. Hopefully go and save Lan's ass.
Power doesn't always have to corrupt. In many ways, it can change a man for the better.

Aranfan

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2009, 12:28:20 AM »
Here's a thought about Seanchan. Rand saw that the people in his empire are unhappy. He also saw the the lands ruled by the Seanchan prosper. We know that he has to kneel before the Crystal Throne. I am starting to think that he will give up control in his lands - fulfilling the prophecy - and focus on his own battles against the Forsaken and the Shadow. Hopefully go and save Lan's ass.

I hope not.  I'd bet that if he went slumming in his own empire he would find the people would say much the same thing about him.  I do hope he saves Lan though.

Andrew the Great

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2009, 01:09:54 AM »
My slightly more detailed thoughts on several subjects:

Rand and the TP - Rand grabbed the TP through Moridin. That's why he saw Moridin's face right as he grabbed it. The Forsaken have to be specifically given access to it, and I doubt (though I don't know for sure) that the DO could or would give Rand access to the TP on the spur of the moment. Particularly right as Semirhage has just captured him and can control him for the Shadow.

An interesting theory that I had seen brought up is that Rand seals the Bore with the TP. After all, when Lanfear first drilled the bore, no one could sense the DO's prison, so either a) it's not made out of saidar or saidin, or b) it's made using inverted weaves, which is entirely possible, but seems a little odd. I mean here's Rand, "Hey, I know we're in the middle of a cataclysmic event here, but let me take a minute to reverse this weave for no apparent reason.

The only issue with that theory? The TP comes from the DO. So, I can't really see it imprisoning him. But I like the theory.

Hmmm... what else? Oh, yes, Graendal's not dead. You'll see.

Verin's note to Mat contains to location of the Horn of Valere. Mat's gonna need the sucker pretty soon, and it's currently MIA.

Rand's circle with Callandor - Him drawing on the TP through Moridin, and the prophecy at the end of TGS about "three will become one" makes me think that Rand uses Moridin as part of his circle, maybe by reaching through him like an angreal type deal. This causes a freaky merger thing to happen (ie the bodyswap theory), fulfilling the prophecy. Not really sure on that one.
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Argent

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2009, 01:22:17 AM »
Rand reaching through Moridin... eh, I can't really refute the theory, since there is almost nothing we know about the weird relationship between the two from the time when their balefires touched themselves in Shadar Logoth.  But I agree that it looks unreasonable for the DO to give Rand access to the TP right after he had given Semirhage a second chance to capture him. And she looked to be pretty successful.

Rand using the TP to seal DO sounds very plausible. We saw Lews Therin muttering about how the reason the DO was able to taint saidin was because he was able to "physically" touch it. So if Rand & co. want to finish the whole business and not taint one of the two Sources, they will need to use the TP. But again, it's too logical, too easy to think of. So there is probably a twist to it.

Quote from: Andrew the Great
The only issue with that theory? The TP comes from the DO. So, I can't really see it imprisoning him. But I like the theory.
If I read it right, the True Power is the Dark One.
Power doesn't always have to corrupt. In many ways, it can change a man for the better.

Patriotic Kaz

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2009, 03:43:34 AM »
Who made the connection of standing on his own grave was litteral? It just so happen's to be 3k years old... great ending. The major frustrations i had with the book were b/c of how well written it was. Gawyn is a self-rightous brow beater and reading him is like talking to some arrogant prick you know you can't hit.
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Andrew the Great

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2009, 05:40:34 AM »
The only logical reason I can think of for the DO to give Rand access to the TP is if the TP is naturally corrupting, and the DO wants him to use it. Which makes sense if you think about the fact that Moridin said that Semirhage was not to be released, and then she was released shortly thereafter, only to be killed by Rand using the TP. The entire escape could have been intended to get Rand to use the TP, with Cadsuane getting banished as a convenient side effect.

I still like the idea of Rand grabbing the TP through Moridin better, though.
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Aranfan

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2009, 05:41:28 AM »
I noticed that the women seemed less catty.

Also, Brandon broke the Cardinal Rule of WoT, he had people talk to each other :o  ;)

acote

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2009, 07:09:34 PM »
Here's a thought about Seanchan. Rand saw that the people in his empire are unhappy. He also saw the the lands ruled by the Seanchan prosper. We know that he has to kneel before the Crystal Throne.

Actually, no.  One of the things that Ishamael was able to do while the rest of the Forsaken were imprisoned was alter every single copy of the prophecies that went over the ocean with Hawkwing's armies (this is canon, not a theory).  So when their prophecies say that he has to kneel before the Crystal Throne, it's probably not true.

Valkynphyre

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2009, 08:17:30 PM »
looking back, I think the character who was changed the most was Nyneave. I missed her temper and woolheadedness. She was far too understanding, and i missed her. Fantastic book, but my favorite character was.... missing.
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Patriotic Kaz

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2009, 08:41:42 PM »
She's slowly been changing... and favorite character? How? She and Faile are the most hated characters in Wot! ( I personally dislike Gawyn the most b/c like i said he's self-rightous)
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RedMars11

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2009, 12:55:27 AM »
Ah, one thing I forget.  While I spoiled myself on the epitaphs, I didn't read the chapter names.  So when I got to the chapter titles "Veins of Gold" I had a shiver.  I knew things would be okay for Rand.  Or at least better.  Finally the laughter and tears.  Wonderful throwback there.  Those scenes in Winter's Heart were some of the best in the series, and yeah, some of the oddest, but what the hell?  Avhienda Min and Bridgette getting drunk is always a hoot.

I noticed that the women seemed less catty.

Also, Brandon broke the Cardinal Rule of WoT, he had people talk to each other :o  ;)

Honestly...  I tried to dance around it in my comment, as it seems blasphemous especially now, but this.  Good god this is why TGS was so great.  There is no doubt that Jordan was a masterful idea man, and godly at assembling vast amounts of threads at a time, but the characters rarely really talked.  I about never got the impression that Perrin, Mat, and Rand were friends.  Nor that a lot of the love stories were as real as we were meant to believe.  It was just that nobody talked, and everybody was a bit of an ass to each other.  It created a feel that a lot of the love stories were "love at first sight, and done."  I gave up on Eye of the World once, but the world drew me back.  The books picked up in every regard after that, even this.  But even after the characters talked more, they weren't around each other that much.  Eventually I also picked up on Jordan's style, and sort of saw what I thought he meant through many of the interactions, but the damage was still done.

And the women... were way to catty to each other.  Nyneave especially.  Again this was improved as things went along, but again, the damage had already been done.

I do love the series, don't get me wrong.  But I honestly feel that part of why it was so long was just that nobody ever talked reasonably, creating plot threads that simply had to last way to long because the characters didn't have realistic conversation with each other.  Everybody was to guarded about everything.  Not a problem when people don't know each other, but this went on even among life long friends. 
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 01:00:36 AM by RedMars11 »

Aranfan

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2009, 01:13:35 AM »
RedMars, I have to disagree that Rand, Mat, and Perrin didn't seem like friends.  They seemed tight until Perrin started talking to wolves in his head and Mat went paranoid, and even then the communication between the three didn't really falter until it was realized that Rand could channel. 


Your right about the falling in love issues though.

RedMars11

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Re: The Gathering Storm - First Impressions *SPOILERS*
« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2009, 01:34:38 AM »
I suppose you're right, but that was still only about half of Eye of the World.  And yeah, they still treated each other like friends, but they didn't seem to talk like friends.  Their conversations around each other were much to guarded to me, even at the beginning.  There wasn't much of the sense of familiar casualness to them which friends have.