May 4 - 2009 - Chris - Blade of the Fallen Comments

[swaindaddy]

Please put all your comments for my manuscript here. Thanks!

(This is draft one so don't worry about grammar at all unless it somehow impacts the story.)

[ErikHolmes]

Nice Story!

I really enjoyed both the intro and the first chapter.

I thought that the way you worked out the info dumping in the prologue was a nice way to do it, I found it well written and interesting.

I liked the story with the two scam artists as well. Both were so well written that I don't have a lot to comment on. I'm eager to see what happens to the two boys.

One thing I did think was lacking was details about the fight. We know that Garrik and the Tradesman are fighting but we have no information telling us how they are fighting. I'm assuming its just a standard brawl, with punches being thrown by both men, but they could both be using Kung Fu for all we know. Let us know when a punch is thrown and if Garrik blocks the blow, covers up and takes it, dodges, etc. Even just a sentence or two would help I think.

Also, does the chapter end there? If so I think its a little too soon.

[swaindaddy]

Nice Story!

I really enjoyed both the intro and the first chapter.

I thought that the way you worked out the info dumping in the prologue was a nice way to do it, I found it well written and interesting.

I liked the story with the two scam artists as well. Both were so well written that I don't have a lot to comment on. I'm eager to see what happens to the two boys.

One thing I did think was lacking was details about the fight. We know that Garrik and the Tradesman are fighting but we have no information telling us how they are fighting. I'm assuming its just a standard brawl, with punches being thrown by both men, but they could both be using Kung Fu for all we know. Let us know when a punch is thrown and if Garrik blocks the blow, covers up and takes it, dodges, etc. Even just a sentence or two would help I think.

Also, does the chapter end there? If so I think its a little too soon.

Thanks for the insight Erik, I appreciate it. A good word on the fighting and I will make some changes there. The chapter does not end here but I felt I had submitted about 3000 words so I cut it off at a scene break. Will post more next week. I'll try to keep it at 3000 per post.

[RavenstarRHJF]

First off, good beginning, you've got me wanting to read more!

First part (prologue?  The part with DeMalleon):
-You don't do enough with DeMalleon's feelings.  First time reading it, I completely missed the part where you talked about disgust, and thought he was just being careless.  This further made sense to me as you went on to describe how he has apparently royally messed up (and chuckles about it), ergo no punishment he receives could possibly be worse than the things he'd already set in motion. 

-Also, (and this is a formatting thing which just annoys me) the quote at the very beginning bleeds onto the second line which is NOT indented making me think that "Circle" is the name of this chapter.

-you may want to emphasize words from other languages (Kethim, Lethim) to let us know they are different and to be paid attention to.  I almost read right past it the first time.  On the other hand, you did a good job explaining alien grammar!

-in the paragraph beginning "He had planned for years" you refer to a person named Aris, but in a way which makes me thing you mean DeMalleon... name change?


Chapter 1 (main story begins)
-Garrik's age is nebulous.  One moment you describe him as a boy, the next you compare him to a lord (who, in the readers mind, will most likely take the form of an adult male).  Either he is very big for a "boy" or commoners are called "boy" as a put down- which doesn't explain why he thinks of Dren as a boy, rather than his partner or friend.  Also, how old does he have to be to have "workman's" hands?  9?  10?  15?  Like I said... nebulous.  And how can he possibly hope to even get anyone to accept a fight with him if he is obviously a boy?

-Most people say "your lordship" and "my leige", but not "your liege."

-You should italicize Talonguard to indicate a special rank.

-After all that buildup, it was a little disappointing when the Black Hand man didn't act callously enough.  If everyone indeed knows better than to venture into their territory, it follows that people discovered there don't get treated as if they matter.  True, the boys only matter in that they called the Talonguard's attention to their little hidey-hole, but it would still fit better if the man had simply knocked them out while they were distracted watching through the crack.  That way, they don't have to be told to hush, and the bodies can simply be shoved somewhere out of sight while the Talonguard is dealt with.  When they wake up would be a better time to enact an interrogation.  But that's just my opinion.

[swaindaddy]

First off, good beginning, you've got me wanting to read more!

First part (prologue?  The part with DeMalleon):
-You don't do enough with DeMalleon's feelings.  First time reading it, I completely missed the part where you talked about disgust, and thought he was just being careless.  This further made sense to me as you went on to describe how he has apparently royally messed up (and chuckles about it), ergo no punishment he receives could possibly be worse than the things he'd already set in motion. 

I will do that - great insight. that's what I am looking for!

-Also, (and this is a formatting thing which just annoys me) the quote at the very beginning bleeds onto the second line which is NOT indented making me think that "Circle" is the name of this chapter.

Yeah - formatting still in "beta"

-you may want to emphasize words from other languages (Kethim, Lethim) to let us know they are different and to be paid attention to.  I almost read right past it the first time.  On the other hand, you did a good job explaining alien grammar!

Italics will be added - thanks for that

-in the paragraph beginning "He had planned for years" you refer to a person named Aris, but in a way which makes me thing you mean DeMalleon... name change?

Aris is the name of the Planet - I will clarify.

Chapter 1 (main story begins)
-Garrik's age is nebulous.  One moment you describe him as a boy, the next you compare him to a lord (who, in the readers mind, will most likely take the form of an adult male).  Either he is very big for a "boy" or commoners are called "boy" as a put down- which doesn't explain why he thinks of Dren as a boy, rather than his partner or friend.  Also, how old does he have to be to have "workman's" hands?  9?  10?  15?  Like I said... nebulous.  And how can he possibly hope to even get anyone to accept a fight with him if he is obviously a boy?

More great points!

-Most people say "your lordship" and "my leige", but not "your liege."

-You should italicize Talonguard to indicate a special rank.

-After all that buildup, it was a little disappointing when the Black Hand man didn't act callously enough.  If everyone indeed knows better than to venture into their territory, it follows that people discovered there don't get treated as if they matter.  True, the boys only matter in that they called the Talonguard's attention to their little hidey-hole, but it would still fit better if the man had simply knocked them out while they were distracted watching through the crack.  That way, they don't have to be told to hush, and the bodies can simply be shoved somewhere out of sight while the Talonguard is dealt with.  When they wake up would be a better time to enact an interrogation.  But that's just my opinion.

Tons of great input in this post. every word worth gold (no I don't have any to give you) this will help the story out a great deal - thanks!!

[swaindaddy]

Now i am wondering if I should post the next 3000 words OR do I make the changes to this and resubmit it?

Let me know - I am leaning toward putting the new stuff up each week and then maybe when that is done putting the edited stuff up each week.

Thanks for all the help so far!

[Renoard]

It's a good start.  You have good characterization if a little crisp at points.  It was engaging and I am looking forward to the next 3K rather than the revisions, but that is your choice to make.

Some problems I saw:
I have a bit of problem with the whole tectonic potential as a power source for magic.  You'll have to sell me on it.

Also I felt like the summary of the theology was a little forced, verging on info dump.  It seems like if the monk were fretting about a career of trying to hurry the wrong prophecy, then a recitation of the dogmatic theology of his faith might not be his first instinct.  He might hit the high points that he was beginning to doubt but the rest would be left for us to discover.

There were of course a number of typos that a word processor would catch, but so will your rewrite so we won't belabor them.

As ravenstar noted there were some language issues.:
An King Unless the king's name is An then this would be the improper article.  I know it's picayune but it is repeated quite a few times counting the footers.

"White blond hair suspended from a silver helm that started at the top of his spine. . ."

Hair suspended?  Is it not his own hair?  Is this like the horse hair crests on some British helms?  Did you mean hanging beneath the rim of the helm?  I'm not getting a picture of the helm or the hair.

"each hand held a wicked aquiline dagger."
You have to help me.  In what way is a dagger horselike?  I think we need more of a description to understand how a dagger can be a dagger and aquiline all at once.

I'd like to suggest that talonguard was begging for a capital, unless it is intended to be a very common office like nightwatchman or bagboy.

And I second Ravenstar's points about the age of the boy's and the menace of the Gloaming(Twilight) Hand.  A little talk about something that has happened to Aris since his last birthday, something that impacts their neat little scam, would help us get an idea of who he is.  Some mention of why the sap is a particualarly risky poison would help the seen in the Hand house.
hint: If the poison is a threat to the wielder, then the Hand comes off more threatening as an individual.  If it kills the victim quickly or in a particularly unpleasant way then we know why the boys cower so readily, and why a bad customer like the Hand, can afford to be so polite and even pleasant with intruders.

[swaindaddy]

It's a good start.  You have good characterization if a little crisp at points.  It was engaging and I am looking forward to the next 3K rather than the revisions, but that is your choice to make.

Some problems I saw:
I have a bit of problem with the whole tectonic potential as a power source for magic.  You'll have to sell me on it.

Also I felt like the summary of the theology was a little forced, verging on info dump.  It seems like if the monk were fretting about a career of trying to hurry the wrong prophecy, then a recitation of the dogmatic theology of his faith might not be his first instinct.  He might hit the high points that he was beginning to doubt but the rest would be left for us to discover.

There were of course a number of typos that a word processor would catch, but so will your rewrite so we won't belabor them.

As ravenstar noted there were some language issues.:
An King Unless the king's name is An then this would be the improper article.  I know it's picayune but it is repeated quite a few times counting the footers.

"White blond hair suspended from a silver helm that started at the top of his spine. . ."

Hair suspended?  Is it not his own hair?  Is this like the horse hair crests on some British helms?  Did you mean hanging beneath the rim of the helm?  I'm not getting a picture of the helm or the hair.

"each hand held a wicked aquiline dagger."
You have to help me.  In what way is a dagger horselike?  I think we need more of a description to understand how a dagger can be a dagger and aquiline all at once.

I'd like to suggest that talonguard was begging for a capital, unless it is intended to be a very common office like nightwatchman or bagboy.

And I second Ravenstar's points about the age of the boy's and the menace of the Gloaming(Twilight) Hand.  A little talk about something that has happened to Aris since his last birthday, something that impacts their neat little scam, would help us get an idea of who he is.  Some mention of why the sap is a particualarly risky poison would help the seen in the Hand house.
hint: If the poison is a threat to the wielder, then the Hand comes off more threatening as an individual.  If it kills the victim quickly or in a particularly unpleasant way then we know why the boys cower so readily, and why a bad customer like the Hand, can afford to be so polite and even pleasant with intruders.

Great insight Reonard. I appreciate all of the help. Much, much needed help to make this story work. I will be posting new content rather than edits until the new conent runs out or I just can't go on without editing. Should be plenty of time though as I have at least a years worth of 3000 weekly post content available. As far as aquiline goes http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aquiline

More next Monday!

[Renoard]

LOL Thanks for the refresher.

As far as aquiline goes http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aquiline

I have to admit Latin is not one of my strongest subjects (or interests) and I stand corrected.  However, I still have to admit that Aquiline is going to make me think of a guy holding a pair of hilted probosces rather than Kukri.

Just my reaction.

[Silk]

Just after Vardis throws the book, you have a couple of paragraphs of... well, infodump.

Not that it's not valuable information - or at least, I imagine it will be as the story progresses - but first off, there's enough of it that I think you could stand to break it into pieces, so we're not getting hit with all of this at once. My larger issue is with the placement, though; I don't think the very beginning of the story isd a good place to put all this. We need to see some forward momentum. Personally, I'd take most of this, break it up, and place the pieces at more apropos moments through the manuscript. For the very beginning of the story, I think "The Prophecy was the one holy book still held as the true Word among men" is enough. 

As I read, it seems to me that you're using this information mostly as a segue to tell us about Vardis's motivations, which I don't think you need to do. Let's see him act on his motivations, and give us the piecs we need as we go. Readers are smart, patient people and they'll be happy to follw you along.

The above were my thoughts as I was reading the prologue; now that I've finished it, I think that you've started your prologue in the wrong place. In this prologue you have Vardis reflecting on his moment of discovery, when he found the translation issue in the prophecy. Instead of having him remember this moment, why not show us the moment itself? It would be much more immediate, for one, and since that's the moment your prologue basically revolves around I think it would make much more sense. Also, I think that redoing the prologue that way would help erase some of the infodumpy stuff that I mentioned previously. Just my opinion, of course.

You've got off to an interesting start with Garrick and Dren; I'm curious enough about the ruse they're pulling - and why they're pulling it - to keep reading. A couple of things, however...

Dren's line about the Hand's door, "What fool would dare enter", doesn't sound like real dialogue to me.

I think in order for the chase into the Hand's house to be effective, we're going to have to know a little more about the Hand, and why this is SO terrifying, why it's SUCH a hard choice. As it is, I'm not really convinced. It seems to me that their fear is told rather than shown, and that coupled with the fact that we know nothing about the Hand means that the urgency of their situation falls a little flat. The man that shows up in the house doesn't seem to live up to the hype, either. Sure threatening them with a knife isn't very nice, but it's no worse than what was facing them outside. Again, I think this is a problem that we just don't know enough. We don't know enough about the Hand to know why they're really frightening, and we don't know enough about the characters to know why we should care about them.

At this early stage, I think you only need to "fix" one or the others for this scene to be effective... but I think there is a bit of patching to be done.

I also thought "aquiline" was a bit of a weird word to describe a dagger... but it has nothing to do with horses, which are equines.

Strong start, though.

[swaindaddy]

Great points. Since writing that intro I have decided to make it longer and place small portions across the book at Section Breaks - of which there will be 3.

I have also altered the Hand portion to have the sneak into the house via rooftop rather than go in the front door.

I will remove the encounter with the man and instead allow them to view the following discourse while hiding in the building.

Great insight - hopefully to be dealt with in the rewrite.