Author Topic: 11 May 09 - Dangerbutton - UNPROPHESIED - Prologue and Chapter One  (Read 1721 times)

Dangerbutton

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Thanks for reading!

swaindaddy

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Re: 11 May 09 - Dangerbutton - UNPROPHESIED - Prologue and Chapter One
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2009, 01:14:29 AM »
I did not recieve this email. Did you add me to the list? I may need to check my spam filter.
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything."

Wizard's First Rule —Chapter 36, p.397, U.S. hardcover edition

Hamster

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Re: 11 May 09 - Dangerbutton - UNPROPHESIED - Prologue and Chapter One
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2009, 01:32:05 AM »
Hey dangerbutton, actually, I didn't receive an email either, so if you could resend it, that would be great. Looking forward to reading it!

RavenstarRHJF

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Re: 11 May 09 - Dangerbutton - UNPROPHESIED - Prologue and Chapter One
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2009, 03:18:39 AM »
That makes three (who didn't get an email). :)
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Chaos

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Re: 11 May 09 - Dangerbutton - UNPROPHESIED - Prologue and Chapter One
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2009, 04:26:42 AM »
Strange, because I actually got the email. Critique coming soon.
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Dangerbutton

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Re: 11 May 09 - Dangerbutton - UNPROPHESIED - Prologue and Chapter One
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2009, 06:24:51 AM »
oh yeah, I haven't updated my email list since December..... That will be done. . . .


EDIT --- Okay, now I sent it to EVERYONE. If you didn't get it, let me know.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 06:31:09 AM by Dangerbutton »

swaindaddy

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Re: 11 May 09 - Dangerbutton - UNPROPHESIED - Prologue and Chapter One
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2009, 02:50:15 PM »
Great stuff Dangerbutton. Let's jump right in:

Prologue: I like the set-up but I think you rushed it. Spend more time on describing the procession. It's like the camera is zoomed too far out watching this thing happen. Perhaps you could bring it down to an indivdual who is within the procession. At teh very least describe more of all the cool people within the procession. It is good but I want more of it. That way the pay-off of the twins will hit a little harder. Especially if we are inside someone's head rather than an omnicient camera above it all.

"No mistake made, no matter how small, can be forgiven; not by the kazhguul." I don't see the need for italics unless someone is thinking this.

"And the look in their eyes, thought Hurn, it’s so. . . so . . . He " Italics signifies that he is thinking this so - no reason to state that. Italics OR say he thought it - not both.

"grey-skinned finger." I'd just say grey finger. It's implied that fingers have skin.


Other than these minor issues I love it. I am looking forward to where the story goes and I like the possibilities so far! Great stuff here!
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything."

Wizard's First Rule —Chapter 36, p.397, U.S. hardcover edition

Hamster

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Re: 11 May 09 - Dangerbutton - UNPROPHESIED - Prologue and Chapter One
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2009, 01:34:36 AM »
First off, really good stuff here,
but since I don't have much time to do a full out critique,  I'll just give you my general impressions:

I agree with swaindaddy about the prologue, way too rushed, and not having a particular viewpoint made me care less about the story, and drew me out of the world, so it just wasn't as enjoyable to read as I think it could have been.
Sorry, but it made no impact at all, even if the writing was good. I would humbly suggest using less titles and terms that seem commonplace in your story, but that we have no idea about; it just makes it confusing. Here is a list of all the terms used, it's alot for a prologue, and I calculated that over 15% of your words used in your prologue were part of this list. So again, I suggest either taking some of them out, or at least explaining the significance of them.
Quote
High Oracle,
Grand Council
Transcendent Lake
Host of the Great King
Anointed Generals
Eagles of Aenor
Minstrels of Jubilation
The Triumphant
the Child of Infinity
Strangers of Diaheed
the Darkness
the Plague
The Madness
the Hatred
Writhing Pit
their Violent Lord
The Hope of All
Fountain of Brilliance
Glorified Vessel emerged
Children of the Wind
Sanctified Crib

Anyhow, to chapter 1, I really started getting into the story. I love the way you have set up the different cultures and societies, it makes me want to delve deeper into the world that you've created.

I don't have any specific problems other than with the prologue, and I love the characterization so far, it has huge potential, and I want to see where it goes.

Great start to your story, looking forward to getting more soon!

Renoard

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Re: 11 May 09 - Dangerbutton - UNPROPHESIED - Prologue and Chapter One
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2009, 11:34:34 AM »
This is a fairly tight piece so far. I look forward to finding out where it goes. I have negative reactions to slave societies so of course I read Qul Gastar as a full fledged villain from the start. There's good characterization and setup up here.

My reaction to the prolgue was different from others.  It was hard to read at first, possibly because you jump right into the poetic language.  It reads like a translation of an ancient myth and that works for me as setup.  I expect to find out that the additional baby is the unprophesied and the cause of the misery of the kadur.

I can see the argument for not using such a high percentage of unfamiliar terms, but building on some of the action, with descriptives that tell us how to view them will fix that to my taste.

Two issues that arose for me in ch.1:
Early on I got the impression that Qul was a title rather than a name, and that the kadur were property of individual Kazhguul (nazhghul?).  When Hurn informs the family that Master Qul Gastar had sent him, I was left wondering if Master Qul was a special rank or if Qul had morphed into a part of his name.

The other was the last line of Hurn's internal voice.  He asks, "Will anything ever change?"  This didn't work for me, because of the characterization of Hurn as a sort of Sonderkommander.  He has obviously acclimated to his role handed down by 3000 years of tradition.  What suggests to Hurn that could ever be change.  I can understand the How long can we endure, but can Hurn understand a complexity like social change.  Seems like he'd want relieve from suffering or escape first.

Less of an issue was the fact that kazhguul and kadur were not capitalized, while Hokuri is.  Does this mean that kazhguul and kadur are different species from the Hokuri whom I assume are human?

Keep it coming.
You can always get what you want if you never count the cost.

Dangerbutton

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Re: 11 May 09 - Dangerbutton - UNPROPHESIED - Prologue and Chapter One
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2009, 01:03:43 AM »
Wow, thank you everyone for the feedback. I'm really thinking this will be helpful.

"No mistake made, no matter how small, can be forgiven; not by the kazhguul." I don't see the need for italics unless someone is thinking this.

He was thinking that. Perhaps I should have made it more clear.

"And the look in their eyes, thought Hurn, it’s so. . . so . . . He " Italics signifies that he is thinking this so - no reason to state that. Italics OR say he thought it - not both.

I was uncertain of what to do in this situation. With regular dialogue, mere quotation marks  signify that someone is saying something, but they are still often followed with "said bob". Do thoughts and dialogue follow different rules in that situation?


Two issues that arose for me in ch.1:
Early on I got the impression that Qul was a title rather than a name, and that the kadur were property of individual Kazhguul (nazhghul?).  When Hurn informs the family that Master Qul Gastar had sent him, I was left wondering if Master Qul was a special rank or if Qul had morphed into a part of his name.

The other was the last line of Hurn's internal voice.  He asks, "Will anything ever change?"  This didn't work for me, because of the characterization of Hurn as a sort of Sonderkommander.  He has obviously acclimated to his role handed down by 3000 years of tradition.  What suggests to Hurn that could ever be change.  I can understand the How long can we endure, but can Hurn understand a complexity like social change.  Seems like he'd want relieve from suffering or escape first.

Less of an issue was the fact that kazhguul and kadur were not capitalized, while Hokuri is.  Does this mean that kazhguul and kadur are different species from the Hokuri whom I assume are human?

Qul is his surname. In the next chapter it refers to a Qul Rezhaad and a Qul Muldesh, both relatives of Qul Gastar. I guess it wont be entirely clear until you see kazhguul of a different family, which isn't too far into the story.

As for the capitalization of Hokuri as opposed to kadur and kazhguul, Hokuri is a nationality, while kadur and kazhguul are species. And, well, the kadur are actually human, but the kazhguul labeled them as kadur to make them feel less-than human. As for how human the kazhguul are, well, RAFO.

Now, Hurn's internal dialogue at the end, you make a very good point. It is a very big leap for someone to even consider the possibility of change when, for 3000 years, there has been none. I have edited to make it be so that he is not so much wondering when change will occur, as he is wondering why things are the way they are. The things he overheard from the Hokuri merchants provide a lot of the fuel for his way of thinking. This is made more clear in the next chapter. His position, and the exposure to the outside world that it provides him with, is what makes him the perfect candidate for one who questions his society.

In regards to the prologue. What Renoard suggested -- that it reads like a translation of ancient myth -- is what I was going for. All of the titles and proper nouns used in the prologue were meant to be vague. This is supposed to be a day in which ancient prophesy is fulfilled. From my experience, a person's first exposure to the doctrines of an unfamiliar religion is full of things they don't understand. All of these strange words and fancy titles obviously mean something, but they have no idea what. I specifically wanted the reader to feel like they were reading something that they weren't a part of, and that they weren't meant to fully understand.
However, to make that more clear, I think I may edit it so that it is an excerpt from some holy text, or perhaps a history.
Do you think that might make it more clear?

Again, thank you all for your feedback. I look forward to sending out the next chapter.

RavenstarRHJF

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Re: 11 May 09 - Dangerbutton - UNPROPHESIED - Prologue and Chapter One
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2009, 02:49:23 AM »
I enjoyed this first submission!

Thoughts on reading:
While all the capitalized titles in the prologue were a bit confusing, I did get the impression that it would be explained later on.  That said, it confused me mainly because all those capitals came so very close together.  At times I wasn't sure what was a title and what was meant to be emphasis... if that makes any sense.  In very old letters, sometimes completely ordinary terms would be capitalized for emphasis:  i.e. 'That Snob' rather than 'that snob.'

Also, it struck me as odd that Hurn would characterize the look in their eyes specifically as hopelessness.  If you're going for a setting in which this is the norm, perhaps it would be better to simply say the eyes were dull, or glazed over, as always happened whenever he came for one of them.  Then, later on, he can identify that look as hopelessness as he gradually learns what hope IS.  But that's just a suggestion.  (and it appears you're already working on this issue) ;)

Overall, a very nice read and I look forward to more.  Sorry this is late!

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Frog

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Re: 11 May 09 - Dangerbutton - UNPROPHESIED - Prologue and Chapter One
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2009, 03:30:37 PM »
Thoughts While Reading
Sure like to name drop, don't you? The This and The That.... It makes the narrative seem detached. If that is not the effect you want, lose it.

I love the concept of the prologue though.

The beginning is confusing. I think it is because you use too many new words and names at once and explain things in a very round about way.

Is there a reason you didn't just set up a scene with the merchants as your first scene? You refer to it so much in your narrative that it is awkward. It might have helped some of the confusion.

Quote
He could never conceal the look on his face that told the kadur, the moment he set foot in their living quarters, what he was there for. The atmosphere was a terrible blend of dread and numbness. The looks in the eyes of the kadur. The fear. The hopelessness.

Quote
They all knew. They always did. As usual, Hurn’s face betrayed his reason for being there.
You say this twice in very close proximity. Pick one.

You hint at change at the end, but I see no reason for that change to come. Seems like an ordinary day for our MC.

Overall Impression:
Some of the style and phrasing at the beginning that I mentioned made this a harder submission to get into, but I am interested in your concepts and care about your MC by the end. Smooth it out a bit and it would be an excellent start. Great work! :D
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