Michael New. Skar?

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Ok, let me point something out here SE.  That case was huge in Australia.  Why?  Because it happens so little.  It is a very very rare occurrence.  Whereas in the US, killing, murders etc. are a lot more common.  

THat makes *NO* sense. You think there's a murder spree in a high school every other week here? that's absurd. By the same token, Columbine is known about for the exact same reason: It's RARE.

Yes, you're right, population density probably does have a little to do with it.  However, we **do** primarily live in cities in Australia.  I still say that the gun control laws make it safer here.

Speaking only generally, Your cities are quite small compared to American cities. ANd over all, the density is MUCH higher across the country. Killings in small towns in the US where pop. density is very low is quite rare.

And if you want to look at violent deaths between 15-19, the US is higher by at least 2000 than Australia.

I'm assuming your pulling that number out of the air. Even if the US does have 50% more violent crimes than Australia than any demographic, that amkes the US SAFER, since, y'know, we have about 15 times the population you do.

[Master Xaio]

Sorry Archon, I missed your post and only saw SE's.

What I was trying to show was that a regulated weapon made its way into the hands of someone who was not a mobster.  

You still havent told me whether it was in Aus or the US.  I'd say that if it were in Aus, it would have made a fairly big news story, but I haven't heard of it.  If its in the US... well, I don't think I need to say anything.

If you were being followed by a guy with a knife, or were getting mugged, would you rather pin your hopes on a cop coming to save the day, or would you rather have a gun in your pocket so that you can do something for yourself?

See, I'd rather be facing a guy with a knife, rather than a guy with a gun.  A knife is a lot less dangerous than a gun, and you can very easily disarm and defeat someone with a knife.  Sorry, but I'd rather have no guns.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Yeah, see, just think if that kid did have a gun, what would have happned?

And have you done anything to help the kid or prevent other people from suffering from him? If he had a gun, he probably woudl have had a harder time hitting. and it's unlikely he would have killed a guy adn crippled a girl at the same time.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

A knife is a lot less dangerous than a gun, and you can very easily disarm and defeat someone with a knife.  Sorry, but I'd rather have no guns.

Actually, disarming is about the same. You just fear the gun more.

The knife is goign to just be more painful. You have mroe time to respond to the wound, but other than that, I don't think there's that big a difference in the potential damage.

[Archon]

Outkast, he didnt do anything with it, so it wouldnt make the news. Nobody caught him with it in school. My point was simply that he had it.

Actually, disarming is about the same. You just fear the gun more.

If you want to go into it, I would actually say that a knife is harder to take from someone. With a gun you can get a hold of it by the barrel, whereas with a knife, it is harder to get a hold of. Other than that the concepts behind taking them are about the same.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

but had it where.... you still havent supplied a location...

[Master Xaio]

Actually, disarming is about the same. You just fear the gun more.  

The knife is goign to just be more painful. You have mroe time to respond to the wound, but other than that, I don't think there's that big a difference in the potential damage.

Uh..... no.  Tell me SE, have you ever fought with a knife? Or against someone with a knife?  It is a lot easier to inflict damage with a gun.  All you have to do is point it, and pull the trigger.   To be dangerous with a knife, you have to be fairly proficient with it.  You also need to have speed and strength.  A knife is a lot less dangerous.

[Archon]

It was in the U.S.

[Master Xaio]

Then what's the point Archon? JP and I are in Australia, and we are arguing that Australia is safer than America.  You just gave another example of America being less safe...

[Archon]

Outkast, I know a lot of people who dont know how open sights work. If the target is more than a few feet away, you need to know how to sight the gun. You also need to know how to work the mechanics of a gun, safety, racking it, clip mechanism, etc. True you dont have to be in as good of shape physically, but you do have to know what you are doing somewhat. Plus, a lot of people havent been around guns, whereas everyone knows how to use a knife. Some people know how to fight with one better than others, but the concept is the same.

My point was that even if a weapon is regulated, which I assure you rocket launchers are, they can still be obtained by people other than hard core gangsters. Which proves once again that anyone can still get a gun, controlled or not.

[Master Xaio]

If he had a gun, he probably woudl have had a harder time hitting. and it's unlikely he would have killed a guy adn crippled a girl at the same time.

Ok then.  First off, you seem to have your facts slightly wrong - he didn't kill anyone, he injured two girls.

an attack which seriously injured two schoolgirls

Voila.  

Next, let me get this straight.  You think that if the kid had a more dangerous weapon, he would cause less damage? No offence meant, but absolutely no sense is apparent in that statement.  Perhaps you could clarify?

[Master Xaio]

My point was that even if a weapon is regulated, which I assure you rocket launchers are, they can still be obtained by people other than hard core gangsters. Which proves once again that anyone can still get a gun, controlled or not.

... In the US.  It doesn't prove anything about Australia.  Different Cultures and situations dude.

If the target is more than a few feet away, you need to know how to sight the gun.

 Because, y'know, muggers always stand more than a few feet away while they're robbing you, yes?

EDIT:
Just stand back for a second.  Ignoring in who's hands they are, which weapon is regarded as more dangerous? Gun, or knife?

[Entsuropi]

Depends. A hollowpoint bullet will rupture organs, bounce around, and generally cause a hell of a mess, but are usually designed to leave the target alive. Part of military planning... make the enemy injured, so that two of his buddies and a combat medic all rush to help him. You can then shoot them too (I learned that off of a danish friend, in their home guard, heh).

However, hollowpoint is generally military issue. I'm not sure how common it is among civilians. And a knife... well. You realise how easy it is to injure someone with a knife? A sharp combat knife will cut through human flesh with great ease. Bone is where it stops, but the human skeleton ain't exactly designed to stop knives. And all it takes is a single sideways swipe to disembowel someone. Thats why armour, when you had it, always had abdomen protection.

When you factor in the fact that guns are harder, by far, to hit with, and the simple fact that both, when they hit, will do massive damage irregardless... i'd be just as worried either way.

Also, knives make you bleed more. Cuts more arteries, so that cutting someone is by far the messiest way to kill them.

[Master Xaio]

*sigh*

Injure someone with a knife, yes.  However, its not **that** easy to inflict a fatal wound with a knife.  You can inflict a wound which if left untended, can turn fatal, yes.  You can inflict near fatal wounds.  But...

And thats only really if they're standing still.  Now, I'm not sure about some of you, but somehow I don't really like the idea of being disembowled, so I'd probably move.  

Y'know, just looking back, this is just a bit off track...

[Archon]

Because, y'know, muggers always stand more than a few feet away while they're robbing you, yes?

If they are smart they stand a little way away because it is easier to disarm them when they are closer. Especially if they have a partner that comes to take your money.

... In the US.  It doesn't prove anything about Australia.  Different Cultures and situations dude.

How is that different? A weapon that would be regulated either place pretty heavily, made its way into the hands of someone who isnt a mobster. Why would it be any different in Australia if it is illegal both places?