Author Topic: 20 April 2009 - Renoard - Designer Dreams  (Read 1309 times)

Renoard

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20 April 2009 - Renoard - Designer Dreams
« on: April 19, 2009, 08:54:46 PM »
Short story set in an academic environment.  Hopefully fun and provocative.

In case there were any questions, I solicited BooksStoreGuy's critique.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 04:04:00 AM by Renoard »
You can always get what you want if you never count the cost.

ErikHolmes

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Re: 20 April 2009 - Renoard - Designer Dreams
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2009, 12:50:46 AM »
This has always been a topic of great interest to me so I really liked the story. It's an very interesting twist on an old debate.

I wish I had more to say about it, but in the end I thought it was interesting, a quick read, and a great story just how it is. I hope you have plans to submit it to writers of the future or something.

About the only thing that bothered me about the story at all was the use of the word plastic. It's probably just me, but it threw off the story a little for me. I'd rather see another word used, even if it was a made up word.
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RavenstarRHJF

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Re: 20 April 2009 - Renoard - Designer Dreams
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2009, 02:03:38 PM »
An interesting concept with an angle I happen to agree with... though nobody you're actually trying to convince will see merit in it.  But then, you already know that. ;)

Anyway, it was difficult to make the leap of "this is an alien setting" for me- which consequently made it difficult to keep reading, since the biology was so obviously wrong.  It wasn't really till the end that I picked up on it.  It just seemed like a futuristic human setting, and I kept waiting for you to say how and why humans had replaced their various cell elements with nanites.

Other than that, it was pretty well crafted, if shorter than expected.
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Bookstore Guy

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Re: 20 April 2009 - Renoard - Designer Dreams
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2009, 10:07:20 PM »
Things to work on in this story:

Setting: When are we? Where are we? Simple answers to these questions will clarify some of the problems with readability and comprehension. We are given hardly any information, which makes the story hard to get into. It seems like you want the "surprise" ending, but it doesn't surprise me at. It seems like a typical, "withhold any info that will help you know anything." The info-dump in the middle of the story is particularly brutal, because it is too long for a short story, and the information it gives isn't understood by the typical reader of a short story.

Character: They were all flat, and reacted in unbelievable ways (the professor especially). We have no inclination of age or appearance. In short fiction, you have very little space to make a character jump out at the reader. What can you do to these characters to make the readers care about their views. As it stands, the readers aren't drawn into making an emotional investment into any of them.

Misc: PoV clarity. Dialog tags.

Beginning and Ending: These need more power in short fiction. As I mentioned in my email to you, with less words to work with, you need to be very powerful with them all. You have the right idea with the ending (by the way, dont ever say "The End"), but we need more power leading up to that to make it memorable.

It was a very good attempt, and I think that with a few revisions you will have the story in a good place. These types of exercises are great practice for making setting and character have immediate impact. Keep it up!
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Renoard

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Re: 20 April 2009 - Renoard - Designer Dreams
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2009, 10:50:19 PM »
Okay this is not intended to be defensive, I appreciate the help.  One thing, the professor is adapted from real anthropologist and the arguments are very nearly quotation.  The Character is fictional but the characterization is not, nor is the condescending attitude with which a student (not myself) personally attacked in front of a class.

Those events and that attitude were the inspiration for the story, so I can't lose them.  Can you suggest ways to improve the characterization, without losing the ignorance and spiteful nature of the professor?
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ryos

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Re: 20 April 2009 - Renoard - Designer Dreams
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 04:04:48 AM »
Well...eh. Not really my cuppa tea.

It reminds me of some of Asimov's earlier shorts about robots, where the point of the story seemed to be to show the concept of robots in action rather than craft an entertaining plot. Likewise, this story doesn't feel like a story to me at all - there's not much in the way of plot or character development, just an argument in a classroom.

FWIW, I saw the surprise ending coming a mile away, and I'm usually dense about this stuff.

I agree with a lot of your arguments, but to make them in this way feels condescending to me. It doesn't work as a story, nor does it work as discourse, at least for me. I'm sorry that I can't offer specific suggestions for improvement; I simply can't see a way to do it.

Therefore, as all I can offer is discouragement, please take my comments with a grain of salt and keep writing. :)
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Bookstore Guy

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Re: 20 April 2009 - Renoard - Designer Dreams
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2009, 02:55:31 PM »
Okay this is not intended to be defensive, I appreciate the help.  One thing, the professor is adapted from real anthropologist and the arguments are very nearly quotation.  The Character is fictional but the characterization is not, nor is the condescending attitude with which a student (not myself) personally attacked in front of a class.

Those events and that attitude were the inspiration for the story, so I can't lose them.  Can you suggest ways to improve the characterization, without losing the ignorance and spiteful nature of the professor?

You don't sound defensive at all, and your concern is a very valid one. Likewise, don't take what I say to be an attack - I'm just trying to be very clear and detailed.

Your characters might be based on real people, but they don't act like it. While it's true that the professor might be very condescending and spiteful in reality, the story's depiction of him seems very over-the-top. You see, there are a lot of things that go into making a person act how they do, and we don't see any of that here. All we see is an overly bitter and closed-minded man with no hint at his motivations. If you want to make these people seem like actual characters, give them motivations. Give them characteristics that the readers can identify with. As it stands, there is no characterization at all. We don't even know who the PoV is, or what his name is, until half-way through the story. Withholding the information doesn't help the story here, it makes it frustrating.

When you say that the arguments are a near quote, that worries me because both characters are very inarticulate. This is a problem because it hurts the character credibility that is being pushed on the reader. The professor may be a condescending a-hole, but he HAS to be a credible a-hole or he has no business being in his profession or being a teacher. I have a very hard time in believing that (1)the junior archeologist revolutionizes the field in 12 hours due to his willingness to accept different possibilities, then (2) the professionals in the field are ALL lazy and didn't see ANYTHING, and then just accepted the junior archeologist's hypothesis over a meeting HE called (which is a little out there as well), and finally (3) that it changed everything overnight (not very believable whether or not based on true events) and that he went from understanding to narrow-minded with no transition.

The other problem is the setting. You are writing this like it should be accepted as border-line Hard SF, but nothing in it gives us a setting that this is/isn't SF. There is no genre here.  We are just being put in the middle of a college lecture.

Does that clarify at all what I was saying? Please remember that I'm not attacking you. This would all sound very good-natured in person with concern for helping you improve. I'm just very, very blunt with my opinions and views.
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Frog

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Re: 20 April 2009 - Renoard - Designer Dreams
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2009, 06:29:52 PM »
Thoughts While Reading:
“So as you can see complex life like ourselves grew and developed over time from small changes. You can clearly see that small changes over vast periods of time caused simple single celled life forms to develop new traits, which they then passed on to their offspring and each generation became incrementally more sophisticated. This gradual change is called evolution, because evolution is a more sophisticated way of saying small changes aggregated over time.”
This speech is too repetitive.

"He couldn’t wait till they died out."
 That seems WAY over the top for an annoying student.

The flashback style break seems out of place to me.

Argument seems to drag on a bit….

Overall impression:
Well, it was interesting and you got me convinced (mostly because I was with you from the beginning) but it doesn't really feel like a story if you know what I mean. Characters seem over the top, dialogue doesn't flow very naturally and not all that much happens. It just feels like you're presenting an argument/preaching at us instead of creating a story. But then I am not a big fan of flash fiction in general so this could be just some of that coming through. Overall the writing was good so good job! :D
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