Author Topic: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****  (Read 384450 times)

GreenMonsta

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #525 on: November 26, 2008, 02:15:19 AM »
The question is when was Ruin ever in control of the kandra? I mean there is no accounts of this. Ruin did say something along the lines of the kandra being his least useful children or something. But as with Vin or Zane I would think that it was a limited amount of influence. Also the kandra's homeland was shielded in metal and that resisted Ruin's influence.
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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #526 on: November 26, 2008, 02:23:13 AM »
There were some things Ruin could do and some things Preservation could do. Ruin clearly lacked the ability to see metal so Preservation changed his body into a metal not allowing him to find it. Also the use of atium didn't give it back to Ruin it just caused more geodes in the pits. It kind of kept ruins body in a constant flux and never all there at once.
Preservation also lacked the ability to see metal as confirmed by BS somewhere earlier in this thread(Also confirmed by Vin when she couldn't see metal after taking over Preservation's power).   Metal was power and so it looked shiny when either Preservation or Ruin looked at it.     Both of them also existed in solid form, hense Lerasium.   The question then is what would have Ruin have HAD to do to get his body back?   It seems surprisingly difficult for this exceptionally powerful being to get his body back even though he had plenty of access to large portions of it.

And all Kandra were spiked not just once, but twice.   The more spikes, the stronger the influence.   The Kandra were just not in a place that was easily usable by Ruin so he kind of ignored them.   They were trained to pull their spikes the moment Ruin did try to control them.

GreenMonsta

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #527 on: November 26, 2008, 02:47:08 AM »
I still think that the metal reinforced homeland of the kandra blocked ruins influence. That would make sense because the first generation never left the homeland and if Ruin could enter their minds it would have eventually found out its location. That would mean that there wasn't much Ruin could do because anyone it sent into the homeland to retrieve the atium would have lost Ruins influence once they entered.
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Reaves

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #528 on: November 26, 2008, 04:10:25 AM »

And all Kandra were spiked not just once, but twice.   The more spikes, the stronger the influence.   The Kandra were just not in a place that was easily usable by Ruin so he kind of ignored them.   They were trained to pull their spikes the moment Ruin did try to control them.

wait all of them? I thought it was just Oreseur, because he got TenSoon's spike. Maybe I'm just misremembering...
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little wilson

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #529 on: November 26, 2008, 04:14:10 AM »
No, I'm pretty sure you're right (except that you mixed up TenSoon and OreSeur). I remember that the Kandra all had one spike--giving them their gift--but TenSoon had two because he took OreSeur's.
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Shadowkiller

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #530 on: November 26, 2008, 05:11:58 AM »
No, all Kandra had two spikes and Tensoon had 4.   Read page 274 in the hardcover.
Quote
He now had four spikes, two Blessings, and was one of the most powerful kandra alive.

As for why Ruin never took them, I don't think he paid them too much attention cause he couldn't see them most of the time.   They might have explained it but I can't recall.

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #531 on: November 26, 2008, 06:22:02 AM »
But they are controled.  At the end the second gen. leader was being controlled by Ruin and was giving up the atium.  I think it's just that the stash location was known only to the first gen.  They revealed it to Sazed, and then the whole coup thing happened, and the second gen found out (who was already influinced as proven by the coup) and then they started giving it to ruin's people.

Or else I'm just crazy.
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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #532 on: November 26, 2008, 04:22:39 PM »
Not crazy, but not necessarily correct.  The corrupt Kandra could simply have not wanted to lose their power.  When Ruin decided to exert his influence on the Kandra, he went all out. 
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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #533 on: November 26, 2008, 06:29:52 PM »
The question is when was Ruin ever in control of the kandra? I mean there is no accounts of this. Ruin did say something along the lines of the kandra being his least useful children or something. But as with Vin or Zane I would think that it was a limited amount of influence. Also the kandra's homeland was shielded in metal and that resisted Ruin's influence.

The simplest reading of the book is:

1) Ruin tried to take control of the Kandra the same way he took control of the Koloss or the Inquisitors.
2) Most of the Kandra removed their Hemalurgic spikes rather than allow themselves to be controlled.
3) The ones that didn't remove them were remote-controlled by Ruin the way Marsh, for instance, was.  Somehow, though, having control over some of the Kandra did not give Ruin immediate access to his body.

These events start when TenSoon tries to strangle Sazed; that is quite clearly Ruin controlling him.
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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #534 on: November 27, 2008, 03:03:05 AM »
Sazed says in the epigraphs that the kandra really were of Preservation. They managed to pull out their spikes when it counted, despite Ruin's control.

You know what I really love about all of this, Keliser's attack on the pits are all the more impressive after book 3.  He was essentially partially destroying a 'god.'
Eh, not really considering anyone really could have done it.   What I don't understand, though, is why Ruin needed his body in metal form in order get it back.   By using it it just disappeared into nothingness only to be slowly returned over centuries.   I would have suspected that using it would actually give it back to Ruin in the first place.   Does it mean that technically Ruin and Preservation were not in fact All Powerful and rather only had a finite amount of power that slowly regenerated over time?   Something didn't quite connect for me in that Ruin couldn't find his own body, couldn't keep it from being used and needed it in solid form in order to regain it(not to mention he couldn't apparently get it himself and needed one of his spiked people to grab it for him[Otherwise he'd just collect it from the bags as they were handed out to the Atium Mistings before they could use it]).   If Rashek had never mined it out of the pits, would Ruin have been able to get it at all?   Was it something like the Well's power in that the person had to tap into it and then release it back to Ruin without using it?   I've been quite confused on that subject for a while now.

You know what? I just realized why Kelsier's attack on the Pits of Hathsin worked in the first place. Atium is of Ruin, but Allomancy is of Preservation. Using Allomancy on the atium geodes would, then, logically destroy the geodes. That's interesting, because it finally explains that question, which has irked me for quite some time now.
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little wilson

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #535 on: November 27, 2008, 03:18:13 AM »
You know what? I just realized why Kelsier's attack on the Pits of Hathsin worked in the first place. Atium is of Ruin, but Allomancy is of Preservation. Using Allomancy on the atium geodes would, then, logically destroy the geodes. That's interesting, because it finally explains that question, which has irked me for quite some time now.

Wow. That does explain it. That whole thing never really bugged me (probably because I never really thought about it), but that totally makes sense....And it makes me even more sure that Brandon is a literary genius. My gosh. To tie all of this together takes talent. And he's got it. A lot of it....I'm kind of jealous. And yet not....More in awe.
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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #536 on: November 28, 2008, 06:15:07 PM »
It's those kind of epiphanies that makes the work so much fun to experience. Especially if there are too many to count.  :)

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon*
« Reply #537 on: November 29, 2008, 09:06:11 PM »
All during the theorizing process before Hero of Ages came out, I think we all were thinking a bit too hard. I had a tendency to overcomplicate things beyond recognition. We should have been thinking all in terms of Ruin and Preservation, because THAT was the elegant solution.
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little wilson

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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #538 on: November 30, 2008, 01:43:51 AM »
I'm really happy right now. I got to go to the I.F. (Idaho Falls) signing, and ask Brandon a bunch of my questions. It was cool. And one of the things he said was quite interesting. Apparently Atium and Larasium can be alloyed with any Allomantic metal and each result is something different....I for one would like to know what each alloy would do. It would be fascinating.

I also discovered that Nicrosil can't do anything more for a person already burning Duralumin. I was slightly disappointed by this. I was hoping that if a Nicrosil misting burned Nicrosil at the same time a person burned Duralumin, it would double the effect of what was happening. Apparently not.....Interestingly enough, though, if a Soother with a Hemalurgic Duralumin spike (or with a companion who's a Nicrosil misting) came across Marsh in the next trilogy, he WOULD be able to take him over. That's cool.

Oh, and another thing I found interesting--there are Nicrosil and Chromium mistings running around at the end of HoA who have no idea that they're Allomancers, because of that mist-sickness.
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Re: ***SPOILERS Official Hero of Ages Spoilers Thread. Includes Q&A w/Brandon****
« Reply #539 on: November 30, 2008, 04:12:07 AM »
Interestingly enough, though, if a Soother with a Hemalurgic Duralumin spike (or with a companion who's a Nicrosil misting) came across Marsh in the next trilogy, he WOULD be able to take him over. That's cool.
Sazed would be able to use Ruin's power to steal that control, though, and I think he'd do so pretty quickly.  He might adopt a mostly hands-off approach for managing the world, but I don't think he'd permit someone to dominate Marsh for long regardless.