Author Topic: BOOK OF MORMON  (Read 8552 times)

Renoard

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2009, 09:52:31 PM »
The issue is the sesame-street song, "One of these things is not like the others."  A rational mind categorizes rationally.  We know chimps are not human for a number of discriminating factors.  We know early on that wood is not metal, though we can't explain the difference between a rarefied alloy and a complex organic polymer.

Similarly, there are distinctives that limit inclusion in a religious classification. An essential element in Christianity is the Christ.  The essential elements that are the minimum standard for inclusion in the set called Christian are called Essential Christianity.  Without these basic elements your religious perspective, however dear to you cannot be Christian.  Instead you have what we call Sheilaism, in the sociology of religion.  One of these distinctives is belief in Jesus as the only birthed son of the God of the Tanankh (El Shaddai, Hashem, Elohim, etc).  If you fail to believe in the Father God that engendered Jesus, or fail to believe in Jesus' divinity, you may have a faith that is organized, deeply personal and provides you with satisfying answers, but it isn't Christian, it has no Christ.

I could call myself an Afro-American, but I would be foolish.  I lack the credentials.  None of my wildly mixed heritage happens to include people who have ancestry in among the peoples of Western, Central, East or south Africa.  Granted some were from Egypt, but no matter how you slice it Egyptians have an Asiatic origin.  My grey eyes and mouse brown hair would tend to disuade belief, and my pale complexion wit ha yellowish cast would be the clincher.  No one would accept that I was afro-american, because I lack the essential characteristics.  My claim would be foolish.

Similarly you cannot be an A-theist and an authentic member of a Theistic religion.
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Miyabi

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2009, 10:53:24 PM »
Your break down of the word is incorrect.  It's anit-theist is what it means.  ('A' being a negative such as abiotic.)

That means they are NOT theistic.
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2009, 11:04:57 PM »
miyabi, that's what Renoard is saying.
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Renoard

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2009, 11:57:51 PM »
Ironically I was supporting you miyabi.  ;D

Atheism -

1.   the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.   disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

All major dictionaries have the same definition.  They completely deny the existence of supreme beings.  That is the definition of Atheism.  What you are trying to say is basically the same as saying you can be Christian and not believe in Jesus at the same time.

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Miyabi

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2009, 12:18:59 AM »
Wow, I somehow totally misread that last line.  My bad.  I apologize. ha ha.  D'oh.  I'm retarded.
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Renoard

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2009, 02:02:52 AM »
no prob. I'm dyslexic and would just as likely have typed "can" instead of "cannot" if I wasn't paying attention. :P
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Shaggy

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2009, 03:00:26 AM »
Um…miyabi? Why are the numbers in your first post all…random-like??  ???
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Miyabi

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2009, 05:26:04 AM »
What are you talking about?  The definitions?  They are two alternative definitions of the word.
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benvolio3

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2009, 06:58:09 AM »
I think he might have been talking about your first post when you were all:

"  2. blah blah rule
   4. blah blah rule
   10. blah blah blah blah more rule"

but you were just ordering the rules by the way they were ordered in the set of rules in the rule thingy... which I totally read.
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Miyabi

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2009, 07:21:23 AM »
Oh yeah. ha ha.  Yeah, they were the numbers that the rules were related to. xD
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mtlhddoc2

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2009, 04:22:57 PM »
now I am confused.

Nowhere in any of my posts did I say I was a member of a religion, only that I do not dislike you, nor am I against you or your religion, simply because you believe different than I do. Being an athiest does not make a person an "anti-theist". the "a" meaning "lack of" and the "anti" meaning "against".

Maybe I missed something though. But I am rather desensitized to these things, being an athiest seems to bring out some real hate in people. For some reason, that hate translates into people saying that athiests hate religious people, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2009, 06:23:04 PM »
mtlhddoc2 I think there's a difference between strong (active) atheism and weak (passive) atheism—or at least typical strong atheism and personal atheism accompanied by respect to the beliefs of others. I think your statements have been respectful so I've got no problems with them.
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Renoard

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2009, 08:01:25 PM »
Atheism does seems to have brought out real hate in Richard Dawkins for instance. :)

I think Miyabi was cross-eyed yesterday.  Mostly though I think it was other threads bleeding in here.  So he thought mtlhddoc2 was making a case for being atheist and religious at the same time.  Myself, I wasn't particularly responding to you, doc, I was just expanding Miyabi's point about the incompatibility of atheism and religion.

Doc I think you've misunderstood the motivation of a lot of religious people.  Being atheist, it's natural for you to want to lump religions together, but there are core values in one religion that can be as antithetical to another as atheism is to theism in general.  Trying to merge them, especially through outside forces, is abusive and generally offensive to both.

The other dynamic that is typically overlooked in religious or non-religious people of faith is compassion.  My faith (not religion because we are deeply opposed to ritual as a general rule) compels me to reach out to others and try to convince them of the Truth (yep capital T) for the same reason I would not indifferently pass a toddler who was playing with toys in the middle of an intersection.  Indifference is the most rarefied form of hatred.
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Wolfstar

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2009, 12:14:44 AM »
Yeah... I think we're having three different discussions here, because nowhere in my post did I say atheists believed in anything (which makes Miyabi's reference to a Christian without believing in Jesus nonsensical).  I was mostly saying what mtlhddoc2 got into; that atheists do not automatically walk around bashing the religion of others for the sake of doing so.  In fact, I know more atheists that believe in the right to choose or not choose one's own religion than I do those that are out to disprove the existence of any higher power/god/spiritual world/etc.

Never once did I say that an atheist could be a Christian/Muslim/Shintoist/etc and still be atheist.  If I had, that would have merited the textbook definition.
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Shaggy

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Re: BOOK OF MORMON
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2009, 12:30:26 AM »
Yeah–benvolio3 got it right. Sorry. I just didn't realize.
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