Author Topic: Grammar Questions  (Read 10215 times)

Renoard

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2009, 07:42:03 PM »
Ookla,
Any idea when that toon was drawn?  The title mentions someone named Anathem...  I curois how old it is.
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2009, 08:19:36 PM »
It's from October 1st 2008.
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Reaves

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2009, 08:29:02 PM »
I have been thinking of that particular comic for a while in response to several threads, actually :P
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

Renoard

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2009, 08:50:39 PM »
Okay,
Something that has always bugged me is the monotony of the he-said-she-said's of dialogue.  Zelazney was prone to just cram to quotes together with a narration about the character's behavior e.g. "quote" The evil snot monkey dripped wetly before devouring the frozen trump card. "quote"

Others simply trail off and just leave the bare quotes hanging there after the first couple of exchanges.

I've generally tried to forge through and use a bit of both, along with mixing up the he-saids...  But it can get really tiresome coming up with new synonyms for "said" without starting to sound like a filme noir narrator.

Any thoughts?
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Bookstore Guy

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2009, 09:16:44 PM »
i totally know what you mean. I think that a good use of that time is to further establish the character's interactions with the setting. Mix it with some internalization from the PoV. That will be one of my main focuses when I revise my current novel.
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Peter Ahlstrom

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2009, 02:35:51 AM »
Renoard, it's generally accepted that it's a bad idea to use synonyms for said.
http://tatepublishingeditors.blogspot.com/2008/11/writing-book-dialogue.html
http://fmwriters.com/Visionback/Issue%205/tags.htm
http://www.writesf.com/08_Lesson_05_Perils.html

Eh, I ran across a better page on this the other day but don't see it now.
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Bookstore Guy

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2009, 04:07:01 PM »
I've heard several editors/agents and authors say the same thing. Said is safe. like I said, i try to use dialog tags to also describe what the person is doing at the time. it makes the conversation not seem so isolated.
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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2009, 02:37:27 PM »
I agree with/support what Ook just said. In elementary school ( :P), they had this dumb thing 'said is dead. use these words instead' and a whole bunch of crap underneath. i took this writing class in fourth grade (taught by a published author) and she completely tore that apart. she showed us examples in a bunch of famous authors' writing where it was just said-said-said-said-said. so stick with said.
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Silk

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2009, 08:24:02 AM »
I've been shaking my head at the "don't use said" phenomenon for years. It baffles me.

Here's a question...

"My niece, who(m) I hardly ever see..."

I believe "whom" is the correct use here, but I'm not certain. Anyone?

The Jade Knight

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2009, 09:06:37 AM »
In Standard English (properly understood), either may be correct.

In Edilect (high-brow English), "whom" would be more correct, I believe.
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Renoard

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2009, 10:15:44 AM »
I would hear a sour note if you used who there.

I think that "said is dead" is overdoing it.  But it gets really pedantic and boring to have said repeated incessantly in a block of two or three way conversation. Mixing it a little helps to not sound like an K-6 school primer.
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The Jade Knight

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2009, 11:38:39 AM »
But usually they're teaching "said is dead" to the K-6 group, so...

Frankly, I think it's a matter of meaning.  If you mean something more than said, then say what you mean.  If you're just trying to communicate text, use said.

And never use "said + adverb" if there's a better word you can use instead.
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Reaves

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2009, 08:49:25 PM »
And never use "said + adverb" if there's a better word you can use instead.

Why is that?
edit: obviously I understand the principle of "why use two words when you can use one" but why should you avoid using adverbs?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 11:47:42 PM by Reaves »
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2009, 09:56:41 PM »
Silk, I'd echo Renoard in that I'd hear a sour note if you used "who" in that context - but on the other hand, if you said "whom" I'd definitely peg you as a grammar snob.  (I say that affectionately, as a fellow grammar snob.)  Nobody but grammar snobs ever says whom these days.  So it totally depends on the context.  If you're writing a paper for a class, use whom.  If you're writing dialogue for a story and the speaker is not exceptionally well-educated, use who.
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Silk

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Re: Grammar Questions
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2009, 12:50:15 AM »
Haha. Thanks guys.

The character who's also happens to be a grammar snob, which is the only time I really worry about grammer-snobbery. While writing dialogue, anyway.

Grmamar snobs unite!

Reaves: Extra words, yes, but in the case of dialogue especially I think a lot of times adverbs and the like aren't necessary (we should know that a character is speaking angrily from the context, for example) and they just end up distracting. I think Dan Wells said it best in one of the WE podcasts: Your attribution tags should not be the most interesting part of your dialogue.