3-9-09 Seven Seals

[Necroben]

This is my attempt at Epic Fantasy.

I'll go back to Aspirations after this, but I'm getting ready to start on my next story and wanted to get a feel for which one I'll start with.

Anyway, thanks for reading and have fun with it!

[Pipe]

Live-commenting:

* Dreadfully boring, there was nothing Saul wanted more than adventure. - probably best as two sentences
* Growing up in the kitchen, Saul was an orphan. - the two parts of this sentence seem to have nothing to do with one another @_@
*  Oh sure some of the others had to work in the kitchens, sometimes, Saul was there every day. - "BUT Saul was there" maybe?
*  Those who wanted to get away from the cities and castles; it was the perfect place for it. - "FOR those who" maybe?
*       Women would sometimes come with the caravans hired to cook, guard, or as company.  They would also come into Papa’s.  A few, seeking a new life, would pick up a trade and set up shop in one of the abandoned houses.  Travelers would often stop for them as well as water on there way to the North or East. - this doesn't seem to add anything not in the immediately preceding paragraph, except for the mention of woman guards which can be integrated with the same.
*     Saul liked to think that his mother was one of the few women guards, someone rare and special, who could and would often stand up to anyone.  Often daydreaming, during his mindless hours of scrubbing, Lou would sneak right up behind him.  Inches away, she would whisper softly into his ear, “wake’em up sleepy.”  At a moment when something breakable was in his soapy hands, he would jump almost out of his skin, throwing his hands and dishes into the air, getting him into no end of trouble.  - the first sentence doesn't seem to fit the rest of this paragraph. Also, there might be a better way to segue into thoughts of Lou.
*So Lou would bid her time - bid = bide?
* How well do owls see in the daytime?
* his areole view - Aerial maybe?
* How do the creatures use a bow with those claws? Retractable?
* Nicely described fight scene. Don't think you need to italicize overbite and rainbow though - capitalization should do.
* Considering how long they'd been partners, a bit more emphasis on Jo'hon's emotional state when Golden is injured should be considered.
* Why did he hide Golden?
* Bit of POV confusion with Jonah and Emily
* Oh and Jonah and Jo'hon's names might be too close for comfort.
* “I’ve never done…what you say!” - odd place for ellipses
*  Emily focused on Jonah’s strait back, - straight maybe?
* Is that the end of the chapter? Or just a segment?

All in all I have to say, I think you're more comfortable writing this than Aspirations. Your descriptions for the last two parts of the chapter were well done and everything just seemed to flow more naturally. The conversations between Saul and Lou/ Jonah and Emily were well done.

One thing you might want to consider though: as has been said the first few pages of a novel is where one has to hook the reader, and while there's nothing technically wrong with Saul's part - he IS the stereotypical orphan kitchen boy, at least at this point. I think you might want to lead off with something that showcases what will be unique in your work, and orphan kitchen boy might not be the best place to start if you want to hook a publisher, or an avid fantasy reader.

Thanks for sharing

[Necroben]

Hey Pipe, thanks for your comments.  I wasn't too sure with Saul's part.  I wanted to stay with some of the Epic fantasy tropes, but kinda give it a different spin.  Who we see them to be now  isn't what most would expect them to be later on.

* his areole view - Aerial maybe?
oops!  That's something totally different.

* Oh and Jonah and Jo'hon's names might be too close for comfort.
Yeah, I wasn't sure, but hey, no problem this early in the story.

* Is that the end of the chapter? Or just a segment?
It is what I had in mind to end the chapter.  Do you think this might be a bad place to stop?

[Pipe]

Hey Pipe, thanks for your comments.  I wasn't too sure with Saul's part.  I wanted to stay with some of the Epic fantasy tropes, but kinda give it a different spin.  Who we see them to be now  isn't what most would expect them to be later on.

Well I've got no problems with tropes It's more that it might be better if you start with a part that shows more of the spin, rather than the tropes.

* Is that the end of the chapter? Or just a segment?
It is what I had in mind to end the chapter.  Do you think this might be a bad place to stop?

Not bad per se, but lacking the oomph that would push me into the next chapter (or to purchasing the book). The end to Jo'hon's segment might prove better - but then, that segment would be a good place to start too so...

[Frog]

Thoughts While Reading:
This is a way different style than I seen you use before and I like it.

I like the details on your characters, but I would work on the transition into real time (where the scene/dialogue starts) just to give a clearer picture of where we are right now.

"Little Cody was about seven, no one was sure, was the youngest."
I would delete the 'no one was sure' because it is awkward in this instance.

I think that Saul's thought pattern may be a bit too simplistic for an sixteen year-old.

Deciding he had to do something about it, the both of them, Jo’hon had set out at dawn."
The both of whom? Only Jo'hon was mentioned up to this point.

Yea for animal companions!

I like that he is naming the lizards, but maybe you could capitalize them? So we can see that it's a 'name' right off? Just a suggestion.

Some of the dialogue seemed a little awkward between Jonah and Emily, but it was a good scene and I am interested in seeing her trial.

Overall impression:
First up, do we have to start in the kitchen? Don't get me wrong, I like the epic style set up, but I would like something more engaging for the very front of everything. And I would also suggest you add something to the Lou segment if you keep it because she wasn't doing very much and all the thoughts she expressed were thoughts I would have already expected her to have after such an encounter.  Besides that, each segment interested me, but I think you may be jumping characters too much within the same chapter. It is just hard to build a strong connection with anyone if you jump so much, but like I said, I like the scenes and your world and characters interest me.
Looking forward to the next bit... and getting Aspirations back!
(Now I am torn between all your books. Why must you torment me so?  )

[Necroben]

(Now I am torn between all your books. Why must you torment me so?  )

Thanks for your comments Frog!  I appreciate your incite in how a sixteen year-old thinks and I think I'll be able to bump it up some more.

You think your tormented?  I've got five more swimming in my head that I haven't dared to even outline for fear I'll never get anything else done.  To top it off, I've got three more I started but never got beyond the first or second chapter.  So much to do, so little time.

[Frog]

You think your tormented?  I've got five more swimming in my head that I haven't dared to even outline for fear I'll never get anything else done.  To top it off, I've got three more I started but never got beyond the first or second chapter.  So much to do, so little time.

I actually envy you for that. All I ever get are characters and maybe some world building stuff. 

[Necroben]

You think your tormented?  I've got five more swimming in my head that I haven't dared to even outline for fear I'll never get anything else done.  To top it off, I've got three more I started but never got beyond the first or second chapter.  So much to do, so little time.

I actually envy you for that. All I ever get are characters and maybe some world building stuff. 

Sometimes that's where it starts.  I'll get a character I think is cool, then start throwing stuff at 'em.  The things I throw have to come from somewhere so I world build around those.  Granted it's not all that in depth and may not be a great idea, but I'll write it down for later; hoping that I'll work on it or mix it with another idea later on.  I just learned to let my weirdness be.  Just let it flow.  For some reason it's ok to be strange, as long as it's on paper.

[Reaves]

I would work on your intro. Put a hook in there. There is so much epic fantasy out there these days, a lot of it sludge, that you need to show your reader right away why they should be reading this one. Just show us a glimpse of an interesting character, or a well-turned phrase, or really anything. Just grab us.

So, Saul is an orphan boy scrubbing pots. At least he is not a farmer or a blacksmith, which I think we see a lot of these days. It might work for you, it might not. Somewhere along the line show us a day in the life of a boy scrubbing pots. Trade secrets, if you will lol. ( I was serious about that.)

I haven't finished it yet so I don't know where Frog is getting sixteen from, but I had assumed that Saul was twelve or even younger. His thought processes and his actions as well only reinforced that thought.

  Saul knew about women, even liked them though they were a mystery.  Jenna, one of the other girls at Papa’s had shown him her breasts, even letting him hold one in his hand for a kiss. 

I guess no one's given Saul the talk? lol

He thought it was a bug? If I wasn't sure of his age before I was now. Yup, nine years old.

I have heard that apostrophes in names for fantasy and sci-fi books are overdone. I think Sanderson actually removed apostrophes from a lot of the names in Warbreaker because of that. Obviously do whatever works best for you I just wanted you to be aware.

Nice job with the fight. Everything was quite clear and made a lot of sense. In fact all the descriptions for that entire scene were very good.

About the fight itself: Well, you are obviously not writing dark fantasy Not a single mention of blood that I can see, although you do mention entrails. The fight itself was almost too clean, all sweeping motions and sure thrusts and throwing knives without looking. part of the biggest problem I have is that its almost too easy for Jo'hon. The worst it gets is a burning line across his back. Although I read on and see that Golden is injured and you tried to give the fight a cost, I can already guess that she will be fine.
However, this is far from a major issue. As Dan would say it ranks a 1 or maybe 2 in terms of how big a deal it is

A Protector of the forest, servant of the people; truth to tell he protected them from each other. 

I found this to be very interesting. Hints at political intrigue, excellent. Haven't really seen much of that in any of the submissions yet: Frog had something interesting going with the elf kings but then his main characters moved on. I'm interested to see where this goes.

These skills and others are what separated Jo'hon and his other fellow Rangers from the run of the mill human. 

For some reason I had an image of Jo'hon as some type of cat warrior in my head, LOL.

With a sultry laugh, Emily said, “But that’s all too true, old Master.”

I don't know that sultry is the feel you are going for.

.  As a Master she would not be able to own property of any kind; no land, horses, slaves, nothing, not even the clothes on her back.  Nor would she be able to make decisions for herself afterward, she would be under Guild purview. 

Interesting. I hope this won't be the run-of-the-mill magic users' guild you see in most epic fantasies.

More apostrophes in names.

Cool. If a Supplicant fails her Test, she dies. All those jokes my teachers made in elementary school about the firing squad out back if we failed our tests seem a lot less funny now...

You have a lot of biblical names that you don't really see a whole lot of anymore, at least not where I live. (Saul, Jonah) Just remember if you continue in that vein it will give your story a certain flavor.

The beginning third I didn't like so much but I was starting to get into it by Jo'hon's part, and I definitely enjoyed Emily's viewpoint. Although I am a bit tired of the story shuffling Anyway, I liked it. Good job, as usual!

[Frog]

it's ok to be strange, as long as it's on paper.

I think that shall become my new slogan... all credited to you of course. 

Frog had something interesting going with the elf kings but then his main characters moved on. I'm interested to see where this goes.

They'll be back... someday. Oh, and Frog's a she.

[Necroben]

*He thought it was a bug? If I wasn't sure of his age before I was now. Yup, nine years old.

*The fight itself was almost too clean, all sweeping motions and sure thrusts and throwing knives without looking. part of the biggest problem I have is that its almost too easy for Jo'hon.

*Interesting. I hope this won't be the run-of-the-mill magic users' guild you see in most epic fantasies.

*You have a lot of biblical names that you don't really see a whole lot of anymore, at least not where I live. (Saul, Jonah) Just remember if you continue in that vein it will give your story a certain flavor.

* I was trying to get Saul to tell a really bad lie.  I’ll have to think of something else.

* I wanted to give a feel for just how good he is.  He’s been studying swordplay for 20
   years.  Was there a sense of skill to what he did?  Or did it just fall flat?

* Well I hope not.  There will be more costs to magic than we’ve seen so far.  But even
    if I don’t do the school right, it won’t be there long anyhow.

*  There are quite a few biblical references as the book of Revelations was a large
    influence, hence the name; Seven Seals.

it's ok to be strange, as long as it's on paper.

I think I shall make that my new slogan... all credited to you of course. 

Haha, feel free.

[Necroben]

These skills and others are what separated Jo'hon and his other fellow Rangers from the run of the mill human. 

For some reason I had an image of Jo'hon as some type of cat warrior in my head, LOL.

Oops, missed one.  Actually, that would be a character in another book.

[Reaves]

Frog had something interesting going with the elf kings but then his main characters moved on. I'm interested to see where this goes.

They'll be back... someday. Oh, and Frog's a she.

I knew that...really I did. Why did I say he???

  I wanted to give a feel for just how good he is.  He’s been studying swordplay for 20
   years.  Was there a sense of skill to what he did?  Or did it just fall flat?

It was definitely obvious that he was a trained warrior. However, even with the owl bond dealio unless he has some supernatural abilities anybody would struggle to take down a bunch of eight foot tall lizards. Maybe if you show him using the environment of the forest? Either way its not a big deal.