Thoughts and questions about Elantris (spoilers too)

[ryos]

Hi guys,

Sorry if you've already talked Elantris to death and I just missed it. I made a good-faith effort to find old discussions about my questions that came up pretty dry, but if you're all tired of this stuff feel free to beat me off with the noob stick.

That said, I just finished Elantris, and now I want to talk about it.

First, GREAT BOOK! I loved it all the way through. I did have one issue while reading it, though, and it came when Sarene tells Raoden and Galladon that the Aons represent the land. As soon as I read that, it was immediately obvious to me why the Aons weren't working, and it seems odd to me that it took the characters a few more chapters to figure it out. That's a minor quibble, but it leads me to other questions:

• Why did Raoden need a Teo to tell him that? Wouldn't an Arelene, living as he does in the shadow of Elantris, already know it?
• I also wonder why nobody told the people that Elantris and the surrounding cities formed a giant Aon Rao, and that this fact causes the Shaod. It seems like something you'd teach your schoolchildren in history class.
• Assuming it was considered a sort of Elantrian proprietary secret, why then didn't the Elantrians make the connection between the chasm and the Reod? I mean, they're presumably the ones who thought this stuff up. Fixing the Shaod turned out to be incredibly easy. We know that at least one Elantrian survived the upheaval after the Reod, and I assume he wasn't alone. How did it never occur to any of them to draw a line in the dirt?
• The Shaod's connection to Elantris presents a sort of chicken-egg conundrum. I assume that since fixing the Elantrian Rao fixed the Shaod, then there was no Shaod (and no Elantrians) before its creation. But, only Elantrians can draw Aons. So...?
  
  (I'll admit there are a few hints about this in the book. The Derethi priests appear able to access the Dor through sacrificial means, and the Jindo through ChayShan focus and motion. We also see that an incompletely-transformed Elantrian (Dilaf's wife) was created by an improperly-drawn Aon, implying that a full-blown Elantrian could be made with a properly-drawn Aon.
  
  Or, the characters' belief that only Elantrians could craft Aons and have them take effect might simply be wrong.)
• Finally, a more random note: I assumed throughout the book that Wyrn was somehow behind the earthquake that caused the Reod, and the book gives no evidence either way. Am I off base here?

That's about it. I don't mean to sound overcritical here, because as I said, I loved the book. I'd love it even more if these questions had good answers.

Thanks for reading my rather TLDR first post.

[Miyabi]

Welcome to the boards.

The answer to your question is really a simple one.  When something works, people just accept it.  Over time they forget about it because it simply is.  If something always works you don't question it, so over the millenia they just forgot what caused the Dor to work.  All they remembered was that it was connected to the land.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Finally, a more random note: I assumed throughout the book that Wyrn was somehow behind the earthquake that caused the Reod, and the book gives no evidence either way. Am I off base here?

Well...yeah, that's kind of the point. Except that it was probably Dilaf who caused the earthquake. However, I don't think most people reading the book had any idea that the earthquake caused the Reod until the end of the book; the standard assumption was that both things were symptoms of the same natural disaster. If you got it right away you're very smart.

I don't think that Elantris was built by Elantrians—I'm thinking that anyone could have drawn that line that Raoden drew. There was no indication in the book that Raoden had his magic line light turned on when he was drawing that line in the dirt. So it could have been normal people who build the foundation of Elantris (or just drew a huge aon in the dirt at first) and this started the Shaod.

[ryos]

The answer to your question is really a simple one.  When something works, people just accept it.  Over time they forget about it because it simply is.  If something always works you don't question it, so over the millenia they just forgot what caused the Dor to work.  All they remembered was that it was connected to the land.

I'm not sure I agree. The Elantrians seemed like a pretty scholarly bunch, and not prone to just forget stuff like that. They could have just not cared enough to bother teaching the common people, but it seems a bit egregious for (for example) Galladon not to know all the Aons when he grew up in Elantris with an Elantrian father.

Well...yeah, that's kind of the point. Except that it was probably Dilaf who caused the earthquake. However, I don't think most people reading the book had any idea that the earthquake caused the Reod until the end of the book; the standard assumption was that both things were symptoms of the same natural disaster. If you got it right away you're very smart.

I wouldn't accuse me of too many smarts. I'm usually pretty dim about stuff like that. In fact, I most certainly didn't "get it" right away - I was antsy the whole book for someone to go down and check that crack out, thinking surely the answer was somewhere inside.

[Rrikor]

I believe that the direct connection to there land was forgotten over the years.  They still knew it was connected to the land in some way but not an actual representation of there land.  The Elantarians were more apt to put there time into trying to discover new Aon combinations to draw.  When you live as long as they do you are bound to forget some things and just take for granted that the Aons work for them. 

[happyman]

Here's my personal theory about the Elantrians:

Before Elantris (the city complex) existed, things were different.  Some people were connected to the Dor via the land, and some weren't, just like we see in the story.  The ones who were connected were not very different, however.  Perhaps they were a little bit stronger, a little bit more healthy, but it's not like they would glow in the dark.  The main difference, however, was that they could draw Aons.  Weak Aons, like what Raoden could do before fixing the Dor, but they still would have enough power to make a difference.  It would also be enough power to create an alphabet and discover some of the theory.

The next bit is more speculative. It seems likely that the people who could draw Aons (ur-Elantrians?) would deliberately keep secrets and try to maintain an aura of mysticism about their capabilities.  They would also try to understand their powers more carefully.  Thus they probably formed societies for the express purpose of studying what they could do in a systematic way.  I think we can assume that at some point, one of these groups realized that if they created a large enough Aon, they could boost their abilities enormously.  So they did it.  But to maintain authority, they deliberately obfuscated why they did it from the common folk.  It was their ace in the hole, and they didn't realize it could be destroyed so easily.

As to why nobody tried to fix Elantris:  That's actually explained in-story.  The shock of loosing the Dor was apparently very large, and those Elantrians who experienced it were in no position to explain anything to anybody.  Combine that with the deliberate coup lead by the merchants, and years of pent-up resentment against Elantris, and you have the perfect combination for almost willful ignorance.  The rebellion was a stupid idea, but people have done stunningly stupid things in the history of our world.  (The Soviet Union and artificial famines, anybody?)

One other thing:  It is made perfectly clear in the book that only Elantrians could have drawn the line the finish the Aon.  With all the old Elantrians reeling in shock and the new ones confused and in a world of hurt, there was nobody who knew what to do who could also do it.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

One other thing:  It is made perfectly clear in the book that only Elantrians could have drawn the line the finish the Aon.  With all the old Elantrians reeling in shock and the new ones confused and in a world of hurt, there was nobody who knew what to do who could also do it.

I'm not seeing where it was made perfectly clear. And there was nobody who knew what to do at all, whether they were Elantrian or not. (Unless Dilaf knew what to do.)

I also don't think the original Elantrians who built the city were still around when it fell, or even the first few generations of Elantrians. I imagine that most went to the blue pool eventually after living a long and fulfilling life—that eventually they would feel it was their time to go and would go. I very much doubt that if any of the ones who built the city were still alive they would have forgotten something as monumental as why the city was built in that shape.

[happyman]

I also don't think the original Elantrians who built the city were still around when it fell, or even the first few generations of Elantrians. I imagine that most went to the blue pool eventually after living a long and fulfilling life—that eventually they would feel it was their time to go and would go. I very much doubt that if any of the ones who built the city were still alive they would have forgotten something as monumental as why the city was built in that shape.

Old!=original.  I meant pre-Reod Elantrians.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

My second paragraph wasn't in response to your post but to earlier posts in the thread.

[ryos]

I didn't mean to imply that I thought the original Elantrians were still around. I figured there would be records of what the Shaod is and why it happens, and that these things would be taught in "AonDor 101" at the university. I also assumed the knowledge would trickle out to the common people, considering how deeply embedded the Aons themselves became in their culture.

That said, I'd buy that the original Elantrians would consider the reasons for the Shaod a state secret, lest other nations develop the means to equal or surpass Elantrian might. Beneath that assumption, it's easy to see how the secret could have been limited to a select group or even have died with its creators.

Edited to add: I think we learn that only Elantrians can make working Aons out of physical objects in the chapter where Raoden and Galladon climb up to the top of the city wall. (That's also where we learn that only Elantrians can destroy a permanent Aon.) Were it not so, all that Aon jewelry people wore would have been active, and anyone could have duplicated the wonders of Elantris.

On a somewhat unrelated tangent, did anyone else hear the voice of C-3PO whenever Ashe spoke?

On a very unrelated tangent, I just finished Alcatraz vs. the Evil Librarians. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and was a little sad to see it end so quickly. I think Brandon may have overshot his audience just a bit. It's marketed to middle schoolers, but the plot is a bit simpler than that - there's only one little caper instead of the dozens we get in books like Mistborn. It could be that I'm odd, but I was reading Wheel of Time in middle school. Heck, I was reading Tolkien in 5th grade. In 3rd grade, this book would have about hit the spot.

That's not to say I don't think adults can read and enjoy this book. I just wish there'd been a bit more meat in it (on the order of something like Leven Thumps, for example).

[Miyabi]

I don't think that Elantris was built by Elantrians—I'm thinking that anyone could have drawn that line that Raoden drew. There was no indication in the book that Raoden had his magic line light turned on when he was drawing that line in the dirt. So it could have been normal people who build the foundation of Elantris (or just drew a huge aon in the dirt at first) and this started the Shaod.

Yeah but, and Ryos touched on this before I could get to it, but weren't Elantrians the ONLY people who could affect working Aons?  The city might have been built by the people but someone would have had to create the Aon.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

ryos, Alcatraz is a middle grade book, not a middle school book. i.e. it's for 8–12-year-olds. Middle school/junior high-aimed books are at the young end of YA fiction. Brandon has written a YA book, Scribbler, but it doesn't have a home yet and needs to be revised.

we learn that only Elantrians can make working Aons out of physical objects

Yes, but all such working aons are channeling their power via the initial Elantris aon. I'm just not sure the main Elantris aon works by the same rules.

Also, another option is that Elantris was not built by people at all but by a god (a Shard of Adonalsium-holder) such as the one who is connected to the blue pool, and that god didn't tell the first Elantrians how the city was built.

[Miyabi]

I loved Scribbler.  The whole concept was delightful.

Oh, there we have our other Shard of Adonalsium. >>  The one we interacted with indirectly that we tried to figure out for so long!

[Peter Ahlstrom]

The blue pool one was the first non-Mistborn-series one that we identified—or are you identifying this new one as the Elantris-builder?

[Miyabi]

I was gone for a while and missed a good portion of the Adonalsum discussions so I knew there were thoughts about the blue pool, but I didn't know if it had been verified. >>