Author Topic: 2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven  (Read 2279 times)

Reaves

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2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven
« on: February 03, 2009, 01:15:48 AM »
Short chapter. I considered sending eight along as well, but it is twice as long as seven and would have pushed the word count over six thousand. So be thankful  :D Plus, a lot happens in it and I would have liked another week to change a few things.

So far there is nothing I can really specifically point to that makes me think this chapter is a little weak, but it still feels that way to me. The first half I kinda meander along and I'm not sure if I can keep the reader interested. Thoughts?

Also, did it seem a bit ridiculous that Tristan was able to fool the guards? It seems a bit cliche or childish to me, but I wasn't sure.

Thanks for taking a look! Be honest!
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

Hamster

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Re: 2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 04:58:03 AM »
Okay, Reaves, I really enjoyed reading that chapter. Now I wish I had the other six! Even though it was a little short and not that much happened, the world building you did kept me interested for the most part.  But to be honest beyond that sense of learning more about the world, not much else kept me interested until the end with all the crystals. I didn't get any sense of plot moving until that part, but you may have intended that. Like you said, I also feel that it is a bit weak, but I can't think how it could be fixed exactly, but maybe a little interaction with other members of the caravan could help.

About Tristan fooling the guards, I did find it a little cliche, it seems to me like I've read a lot of books where something similar happens. And it wasn't that realistic, and it seems like the guards know a lot about the purpose of the contents of the wagon, and would be more suspicious.  Perhaps instead you could have Tristan and Aermyst hide under the wagon or something, and overhear a converstation with the guards that could get the same sense of mystery through to the reader; but your way works ok, and I don't think a lot of people would be bothered by it.

A few small things stood out to me though. In the beginning of the chapter, where you said
Quote
So the days passed until one evening, as the beasts were drawn up to make camp, Tristan spoke to him again.
it sounds like they have been travelling for days and Tristan hasn't spoken to him at all. I find it a little odd because they know each other, and I would have thought they would have at least said a few words to each other, not many people spend days in silence while traveling with acquaintances.

And
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"It flies!" he said. "What the hell is it?"
   Tristan took another bite of his pear. "I call it a skitterfly." He eyed the tiny object now circling slowly around them. "It's a relic."
I took it that Aermyst doesn't know much about relics( and it confuses me too,  ???, I want to know more about them and the ruins, so good job with that bit of the converstation ;)) but later he thinks to himself,
Quote
And besides, relics were not entirely uncommon in Londalis, where this caravan was headed
and I was left thinking, if he didn't even know what one looks like, how would he know if this type of relic(if there are multiple types) would be common or not, and other things along those lines.  Just my impression of it though.

Overall, I really like your style of writing, ( well, actually, I like most styles of writing , so its not that great a compliment... ::)) and if this was a weak chapter for you,  then I can't wait to read what a good one is, thanks for sharing it! 

PS: to anyone reading this, and so far especially deckacards and reaves, sorry if I can sound a little bit harsh, I love any kind of work done by aspiring authors, and I'm just trying to help, so if you get the vibe that I'm being brutal, remember that I really do love your work, and its way better than mine!

WEKM

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Re: 2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 03:38:01 PM »
Sorry I haven't been around for a while.
I have to tell you though, I have been loving Crystalheart! Not only is it a wonderfully original idea, but you have been consistently throwing me amazing curve balls that I didn't see coming. I have been loving it! Please keep it coming. I love being surprised.

deckacards

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Re: 2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2009, 04:40:29 PM »
Okay...here we go...

Reaves, you have a great story here...your characters are real, your environment is rich, and you seem to have a good plot driving the story. When you write, your descriptions are well-thought out and convey your settings very effectively. Good job!

Here's the nit-pickiness...then I'll cover a couple areas for improvement for you...

Quote
Slowly, the desert receded

For the first line of your chapter, you can do better. It seems you want to paint a calm tone to the chapter, and i think your instincts are right on that, but this line at the very beginning seems to act as a tranquilizer rather than a calming agent. It may work as the last sentence of the first paragraph...but play with different ways to start it. I like the "meet them where they're at" method...your reader is in the "expect action" or movement mode...immediately starting with this line is like pushing them unexpectedly off a cliff. Instead, start with maybe a description of something calm and subtle Aermyst is doing, then gradually walk the reader down to "Slowly, the desert receded."

Quote
desert dragonlizards and night owls, and of course the ever-present sand panthers.

I really think you can do better on the naming of your creatures. So far, it seems the majority of your names are simply two English words put together. Come up with names that don't immediately show me what they are...then, at some point (it doesn't have to be early), describe the creatures in a way (maybe a painting, statue of them...or an encounter...) that makes me as a reader compare them to creatures I know in my head. It's okay to expect the reader to do a little work...in fact, it is better, sometimes.

Quote
It was an odd question, one Aermyst had never before considered

I really think he would have considered it before. For example, Stonehenge is something everyone knows about...it's part of history, culture, stories, etc. And I have yet to meet someone who hasn't asked the question, "I wonder what happened?" Instead, maybe Aermyst's reaction could be that it was something he had asked himself, or something he thought he had the answer to because of storytelling he had always heard from someone...not sure about the chapters i haven't read yet, but i know Aermyst would have considered the question before...

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The patina of age sat heavily on it; Aermyst could almost feel that this thing was old

You state the same thing twice when once would do...you don't need the second description. However, if you cut it, you may add just a few words to the first part...or rewrite the sentence after it for pacing.

[quote]"It flies!" he said. "What the hell is it?"
Quote

This reaction would have come after it first took off...not after he reached a second time. Maybe he can say "It flies!" when it first takes off (with maybe a subtle recoil action...?) and then "What the hell is it?" after he reaches the second time...although I would add just a bit (one or two brief sentences) in between to show the two watching it...taking it in...wondering "what the hell is it" briefly before asking.

Quote
Aermyst took another look at the skitterfly. It was roughly angular, and had the look of something carved; he could see tiny blue symbols etched into the ivory-colored object.

Excellent description!!! (I think you want a period...not a semicolon) This description really made it snap into focus in my head. Good job.

Quote
The skitterfly seemed almost sad, disappointed

How? Show us how it seemed sad/disappointed...maybe it turned a bit, looking for the dragon fly...maybe it hums and it hummed or glowed a bit less or lower tone...maybe it hovered lower or briefly dipped...

Quote
It's alone, Aermyst realized. It's been alone for hundreds, thousands of years, its creators are gone and it is alone

The last part is unnecessary and weakens the thought dialogue by over explaining it.

Also, at one point after that part, you say it "looked"...but it has no eyes...I would say it "turned" towards something/one...

The scene where the two decide to follow the skitterfly is too easy...Aermyst seems to just shrug his shoulders and follow this thing. You might build up to it somehow...I don't know...I think I would introduce the thing in one scene...then have it lead them to the wagon in another scene...having it do both makes it seem like you ONLY introduced the skitterfly to have a way to get them from point A to point B in the story. Readers usually see through that.

Quote
Only a few gawked at its swooping antics

Really? Why? This tiny blue thing is glowing and flying around...and it's no big deal to them or the guards...did they mistake it for a dragonfly? I just felt like either more would be looking at this thing...or there is a reason I don't know about that they are not...

At one point, you refer to the face of the skitterfly...maybe I missed it...I don't remember it getting a face...maybe if you refer to a part that Aermyst has decided to think of as the face and say that somehow...

Quote
Come, let us find our beds

At times, Tristan's dialogue seems inconsistent...sometimes, it's uptight and lofty...other times it is laid back and very common...for example, the line above didn't feel like he would say it to me...meaning either it or the dialogue before felt out of place...

Ultimately, I didn't feel like the guards would have been fooled by these two. They just claim they are also guards - special, secret guards - and they believe it...I don't buy it.

I think the one thing you could really work on is your dialogue exchanges...you're a good writer, but your dialogue stands out as less than your exposition and description (quality wise)...you want your conversations to sound like real conversations...and there are a lot of aspects to conversations...pacing, meaningless words, dialect, etc. Also, I think we've jumped on the "Late in, early out" philosophy a bit too much...but perhaps more in the dialogue, here...what I mean by that is this...your dialogue, every line, always seems to have a purpose it is trying to get across...like it's not a conversation but more of a "I have to tell you something - here it is - that is all"...not sure...When it comes to dialogue, I usually credit J.D. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye as one of the masters...along with Ernest Hemingway...you might review their dialogue structure, conversation exchanges, etc. And remember...sometimes your dialogue adds to the scene and characters but may not further the plot much...

Anywho...very good job, Reaves...I think the chapter needs to be fleshed-out a bit more...a bit more meat on 'er bones...but a good framework.

Um...imagine a cool Signature HERE...and it shall be so...

Reaves

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Re: 2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2009, 08:28:34 PM »
PS: to anyone reading this, and so far especially deckacards and reaves, sorry if I can sound a little bit harsh, I love any kind of work done by aspiring authors, and I'm just trying to help, so if you get the vibe that I'm being brutal, remember that I really do love your work, and its way better than mine!
Not at all, not at all! The feedback you've given me has been really helpful, thanks!

I'm glad you guys have been enjoying this. I guess that means I'm doing something right!  :D


Here's the nit-pickiness...then I'll cover a couple areas for improvement for you...
Quote
Slowly, the desert receded

For the first line of your chapter, you can do better. It seems you want to paint a calm tone to the chapter, and i think your instincts are right on that, but this line at the very beginning seems to act as a tranquilizer rather than a calming agent. It may work as the last sentence of the first paragraph...but play with different ways to start it. I like the "meet them where they're at" method...your reader is in the "expect action" or movement mode...immediately starting with this line is like pushing them unexpectedly off a cliff. Instead, start with maybe a description of something calm and subtle Aermyst is doing, then gradually walk the reader down to "Slowly, the desert receded."
Alright, good thought. I don't want my readers falling asleep! Thanks.


Quote
desert dragonlizards and night owls, and of course the ever-present sand panthers.

I really think you can do better on the naming of your creatures. So far, it seems the majority of your names are simply two English words put together. Come up with names that don't immediately show me what they are...then, at some point (it doesn't have to be early), describe the creatures in a way (maybe a painting, statue of them...or an encounter...) that makes me as a reader compare them to creatures I know in my head. It's okay to expect the reader to do a little work...in fact, it is better, sometimes.
Definitely. The dragonlizard was supposed to be a Japanese Komodo dragon, and I want to avoid anything specifically from a foreign language, so I didn't really know what to call it. I agree with you though, I don't think I've actually made up a single word so far  :-\  I think Scott Lynch did a pretty good job with this, at least the example I keep on thinking of is his volturi. The name slightly resembles a vulture, and the creature is something like a killer ostrich on steroids. I'll definitely try to improve a bit in this area.


Quote
The skitterfly seemed almost sad, disappointed

How? Show us how it seemed sad/disappointed...maybe it turned a bit, looking for the dragon fly...maybe it hums and it hummed or glowed a bit less or lower tone...maybe it hovered lower or briefly dipped...


Quote
It's alone, Aermyst realized. It's been alone for hundreds, thousands of years, its creators are gone and it is alone

The last part is unnecessary and weakens the thought dialogue by over explaining it.

Also, at one point after that part, you say it "looked"...but it has no eyes...I would say it "turned" towards something/one...
Good thoughts on the skitterfly. Its something that I really want to have a bit of character, more than just a tool or even a pet. Thanks.

The scene where the two decide to follow the skitterfly is too easy...Aermyst seems to just shrug his shoulders and follow this thing. You might build up to it somehow...I don't know...I think I would introduce the thing in one scene...then have it lead them to the wagon in another scene...having it do both makes it seem like you ONLY introduced the skitterfly to have a way to get them from point A to point B in the story. Readers usually see through that.
Ack! You've caught a last minute change that I wanted to flesh out but didn't have enough time to! Curses! I wanted to put in a bit more transition there. I don't know about a completely different scene, but I'll look into it.
-Actually when I was writing it, I had no idea it would lead them to the wagon, or what would happen there  :P But all that matters is what the reader sees on the page, not what I was actually doing, so I'll fix it.


Ultimately, I didn't feel like the guards would have been fooled by these two. They just claim they are also guards - special, secret guards - and they believe it...I don't buy it.
yeah. You're the second person who has said that out of three, so I'll take it out. Its really not essential to the plot, although at the time I thought it was. That is why it seems a bit contrived to give Aermyst and Tristan a few hints of what is going on.


I think the one thing you could really work on is your dialogue exchanges...you're a good writer, but your dialogue stands out as less than your exposition and description (quality wise)...you want your conversations to sound like real conversations...and there are a lot of aspects to conversations...pacing, meaningless words, dialect, etc. Also, I think we've jumped on the "Late in, early out" philosophy a bit too much...but perhaps more in the dialogue, here...what I mean by that is this...your dialogue, every line, always seems to have a purpose it is trying to get across...like it's not a conversation but more of a "I have to tell you something - here it is - that is all"...not sure...When it comes to dialogue, I usually credit J.D. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye as one of the masters...along with Ernest Hemingway...you might review their dialogue structure, conversation exchanges, etc. And remember...sometimes your dialogue adds to the scene and characters but may not further the plot much...
Okay, thanks. I do feel that the dialogue has been a bit weak, especially between Aermyst and Tristan but probably elsewhere also. Dialogue was something that, when I first started writing this manuscript, I thought was a big weakness. I think I have improved since I've started, but it still does need quite a bit of work.

 Interesting thoughts in your above paragraph, I will definitely put a lot of thought into it. Thanks for the book suggestions, I'll try to pick them up! Personally I generally really liked the dialogue from your stuff so far, at least what I've read, so thanks!

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, comments, and suggestions! I have been getting a lot out of this writing group and I really appreciate your help here! Glad you've been enjoying it so far!
« Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 08:48:33 PM by Reaves »
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

jjb

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Re: 2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2009, 12:14:10 AM »
Definitely the weakest part of this chapter is the characters. Ameryst seemed way more trusting of Tristan this chapter than he had in previous ones. He goes from being surprised that Tristan had been in the caravan for two days without him noticing and being very suspicious of him, to trying to grab this random rock that Tristan brought out of his pocket. He also followed Tristan (and the rock) much too trustingly for someone who doesn't trust Tristan very much.

wcarter4

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Re: 2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2009, 12:54:53 AM »
I would have to say that this chapter's Achilles heel is Tristan's melodrama. It's like he is going out of his way to be mysterious and then turning around and demanding trust from Ameryst. That's silly. If someone did that to you in reality you would probably just think they were crazy then go about your business ignoring them.

Don't get me wrong, I think he is fine as a character, but some of his dialog is inconsistent and a little over the top. The thing with the guards may have been a bit cliched, but then I would imagine ruffian merc's in a world with of ruins wouldn't be the brightest bunch anyway.

 You do have a plot hole between this chapter and the last with the sand panthers and the lone travelers. From the way you described the panthers, priests traveling alone would be basically committing suicide. Many people wouldn't pick up on that, but a few would and real priests and aesthetics who travel(ed) into Earth's deserts did so with followers.
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

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Re: 2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2009, 10:39:04 PM »
Don't feel bad about having a short chapter. This is a good place to have some more world building.  You had action in chapter 5 and I smell a fight of some kind coming in chapters 9 or 10.   So make good use of this chapter for exposition.


Quote
tamped down by countless travelers journeying along its winding paths.
Why are the roads "winding" in a desert?  Seems to me like they'd be straight.

Quote
"What do you think about the ancients? How could a powerful civilization that created such long-lasting cities simply vanish?" It was an odd question, one Aermyst had never before considered.

Seriously? Never?

Quote
Tristan seemed insistent, as if he already knew the answer but simply wanted Aermyst to figure it out for himself.

Interesting.  I really hope to learn Tristians motivations some day.  Cause right now it seems like he's just trying to be a jerk. Why not just say what he means?

Maybe I'm being too nit-picky though.

Quote
"Must everything have a purpose? It doesn't really do anything,
I like this line.

When they come to the wagon that the skitterfly led them to, why don't they knock, or at least wonder who owns it. They go immediately to trying the handle and then breaking and entering.

So somebody's smuggling heartcrystals, eh?  Or trying to dispose of them.   Instead of having the heartcyrstals out in plain view, consider hiding them a little more.  Maybe they're hidden in other otherwise normal-looking trade goods.  (Think of all the crazy ways drug smugglers transport their goods overseas... minus the human mules. lol)   By hiding the crystalhearts, it may give you a chance to increase the drama.  For example:    Guards are coming.... the skitterfly is buzzing around a barrel of oats ... Tristian wants to leave NOW ... Aermyst says "Just a second" and moves toward the barrel. ... Guards are now closer .... Aermyst lifts the barrel's lid and peers inside.... Skitterfly buzzes ... Guards notice the door open and run toward them ....Aermyst glimpses a concealed glimmer deep in the barrel....

etc.  See what I mean?

Good stuff.  Your prose is also starting to get a little smoother, although truthfully I still think you can take it up a notch or two still.  (But hey, can't we all?)
These are not my stories. I just write them.

Frog

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Re: 2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2009, 09:49:10 AM »
Thoughts While Reading:
Transition could use some more polish, but good descriptions
How do they know so much about a civilization (that they were powerful and practically invisiable) just by looking at the ruins? Where is Tristan getting all his information, and if it is common knowledge, how come Aermyst didn't ever consider it? Or is Tristan just being creepy again? ;)
"They do that sometimes. I'm not sure if they're tasting the flesh or drawing blood. It won't hurt you." Um... it just did. It bit him. I count that as hurting him.
"And besides, relics were not entirely uncommon in Londalis, where this caravan was headed." Then why didn't Aermyst know what it was?
Wait, are they just breaking into a wagon in the middle of the camp? And nobody cares?
"You've done nothing but confound me at every turn." He's frustrated, so confounded seems a bit too elevated/awkward in this context.
Is Temos a moon? Did you tell us that before?
Wow, Aermyst changed tactics fast.
Thank goodness for gullible guards! :)
Yep, I would have nightmares about Tristan too. :)
Overall impression:
Sorry, but I am having some trouble with Aermyst's motivation again. Is he annoyed by Tristan or curious? Does he want to go exploring or is he focused on getting to the next city ASAP? Then there was some interesting world building in this chapter that seemed to give it more of a Sci-fi feel than a fantasy. I'm not too worried about it right now, but just so you know, I have seen very few books where they were able to pull that off IMO, so be very careful about blending the two.
I think that is all I have for you. Good job overall.

Edit: I forgot to say before that I LOVED the ruin's brief characterization. Funny little creatures are always a good thing. :)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 10:41:07 PM by Frog »
I've already conquered the world. This is exactly the way I want it.

deckacards

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Re: 2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2009, 12:00:26 AM »
YES! I also forgot to mention that I loved the skitterfly...great character!
Um...imagine a cool Signature HERE...and it shall be so...

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Re: 2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2009, 12:58:10 AM »
Oyeah, has anybody here played the "JAK" video game series, because Reave's world and 'relics' and ruins remind me of the Wasteland and the Precursors. Just a random thought that popped into my head while reading it.

*Spoiler for the Jak series* Hopefully the similarities don't extend into the creators of the relics actually being little orange furry guys who like pants.   :P

Reaves

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Re: 2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2009, 01:01:47 AM »
Wait...you knew???!!!   ;D

I think we can safely cross that one off the list. Never heard of JAK, btw.
Quote from: VegasDev
RJF: "AHA! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Cairhien, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a warder when he is only the distraction! Get him Rand! Buzzzzzzz!

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Re: 2-2-09 Reaves: Crystalheart, chapter seven
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2009, 03:14:08 AM »
Sorry it took me so long. ;)

Quote
Aermyst felt a tiny prick on his palm… the prick had already vanished.

Did the pain vanish or did the minor wound heal itself that quickly?

Quote
Aermyst complied and allowed Tristan to work on the lock.

I could believe Tristan wouldn’t care about breaking into the wagon, but what about Aermyst?  He just doesn’t seem the type.  Not yet anyway.

Quote
The skitterfly, circling in frenzy about the center of the wagon, flashed once… and Aermyst quickly stuffed the buzzing skitterfly up his sleeve.

He couldn’t catch it before, but he can now?  I could see it if the thing was on his arm or in his hand.  But so far you’ve impressed me with how quick the skitterfly is and it doesn’t quite match up here.

I agree with the fooling of the guards thing, though it could work.  Just because something is cliché, doesn’t mean it’s bad.  But it does mean that you have to do it really really well.  For me it was almost there, but not quite.  Maybe commiserate with the guards instead of ordering them about.

All in all, I liked it, but Tristan doesn’t seem believable, yet.  Why would Aermyst trust him enough to follow him around and break into the wagon, but then turn around and doubt Tristan’s sincerity about wanting to help him?  Maybe if Tristan had done some few small things to begin earning Aermyst’s trust, then I could see it.  But not right now.  Also, in the last chapter you submitted, at the end it seemed that there was an implied promise of a fight, or some other kind of combat type conflict.  It just wasn’t in this chapter and I was kinda let down.  Now this could be my mistake, but I figured I ought’a let you know.

Still, great work!  Keep’em commin!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 03:25:13 AM by Necroben »
I don't suffer from insanity...  I enjoy every minuet of it!

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