A Memory of Light

[melbatoast]

Miss Scarlet killed Asmodean, in the pantry, with a candlestick.   

lol... Everything makes sense to me now!

[apbadd]

I am in a re-read right now but thought I would pose a question to you all now.  Why has the Dark One been so nice to Ishmael?  He failed to convert Rand or kill him and in the process he is killed.  But the Dark One brings him back and makes him the master-pimp of the Foresaken and granting him access to the True Power.  How does that work?  After all another foresaken that failed, Bethemal (sp), came back as a woman as part of a punishment.

[Eerongal]

I am in a re-read right now but thought I would pose a question to you all now.  Why has the Dark One been so nice to Ishmael?  He failed to convert Rand or kill him and in the process he is killed.  But the Dark One brings him back and makes him the master-pimp of the Foresaken and granting him access to the True Power.  How does that work?  After all another foresaken that failed, Bethemal (sp), came back as a woman as part of a punishment.

I think it's because the rest of the forsaken plan, plot, and scheme against one another, while ishy always stays on track goes for the overall victory first. Plus he's quite mad, which i'm sure is a bonus, in the eyes of the DO.

[douglas]

Also, Ishamael has done a great deal to further the Dark One's cause and disrupt his foes over the past 3000 years.  He was affected by the seals considerably less than the rest of the Forsaken and was able to actually go out into the world periodically, and he managed to accomplish quite a bit each time, always in ways that clearly benefited the Dark One.  He has an established track record of concentrating on the Dark One's agenda rather than his own selfish greed, and being very effective at it too.

Among other things, I seem to recall Ishamael boasting about being a top adviser of Artur Hawkwing and turning him against the White Tower and all Aes Sedai.

[IngtarWhoStoleChristmas]

Another reason for Ishy's high status (which kind of agrees with what everyone else has been saying) he never really tries to Kill Rand in direct combat and specifically he even helps Rand after the command was issued in the beginning of book 6.

Also note, Rand is the "fisher king" played in the Game that Moridin is playing in book 8 (I think). Part of the strategy of that game is to manipulate the fisher king's movements. I believe the DO NEEDS Rand at the last battle, even if he is fighting against the shadow, after all if there is no Last Battle, then how can he win and escape and break the wheel? (I believe the one Black Ajah of the 5 Aes Sedai loyal to Rand (per Min's vision) used similar logic for her reasons to support Rand)

[Eerongal]

(I believe the one Black Ajah of the 5 Aes Sedai loyal to Rand (per Min's vision) used similar logic for her reasons to support Rand)

Elza.

Yes, she does use similar logic, HOWEVER, that logic was put in her mind by Verin using compulsion on her (it's implied in winter's heart i believe when we see her POV.)

[Comfortable Madness]

(I believe the one Black Ajah of the 5 Aes Sedai loyal to Rand (per Min's vision) used similar logic for her reasons to support Rand)

Elza.

Yes, she does use similar logic, HOWEVER, that logic was put in her mind by Verin using compulsion on her (it's implied in winter's heart i believe when we see her POV.)

Hmmm....Are you sure it was Verin? I remember Verin doing some shady things with those five but I thought Elza was one of the ones whom immediately swore for Rand without the aide of Verin.

[Eerongal]

(I believe the one Black Ajah of the 5 Aes Sedai loyal to Rand (per Min's vision) used similar logic for her reasons to support Rand)

Elza.

Yes, she does use similar logic, HOWEVER, that logic was put in her mind by Verin using compulsion on her (it's implied in winter's heart i believe when we see her POV.)

Hmmm....Are you sure it was Verin? I remember Verin doing some shady things with those five but I thought Elza was one of the ones whom immediately swore for Rand without the aide of Verin.

Well, just to be sure, i just checked on a WoT FAQ:

--Elza Penfell is one of the Aes Sedai taken prisoner by the Asha'man at Dumai's Wells. (LoC,Ch55)
--Elza is held prisoner by the Asha'man. (ACoS,Ch1)
--Beldeine, Elza, Erian, Nesune and Sarene beg to be allowed to swear fealty to Rand. (TPoD,Ch29)

Almost two full books elapsed before she swore fealty to rand.

[Shaggy]

Miss Scarlet killed Asmodean, in the pantry, with a candlestick.

What is this, 'Clue?'

I'm not so sure about the relationship of the One Power and the True Power. Saidin/Saidar come from the Wheel, right? And the True Power comes from the Dark One. Someone also said below that the True Power makes you go insane faster—but I don't know if they're connected. Even the most Saidin-driven whackjobs we've met haven't had the saa–you can't forget the saa.

OK. Just want to put this thought out there. So we have the Wheel, from which comes the One Power (Saidin and Saidar). We have the bad dude, the Dark One, from whom comes the True Power. But where's the Light dude? And even if there isn't one, or not yet (Rand?), couldn't there be a Light power? Everyone is always referring to the 'Light' like it's all the good in the world–but what if it's more than that? What if it is an unknown, untapped resource? Just a thought….

[Publius]

I was kind of thinking along the same lines that if the One Power was the equal opposite of the True Power, then that would explain why the Dragon always lost to the Dark One.  He always fought with half the One Power while the Dark One fought with both sides of the True Power.  Basically he always took a knife to a gunfight.  In aMoL we'd have to find out how the One Power was split in half or why the True Power did not if this is the case.

The Dark One's touch would be the True Power right?  What is the Dark One, do we know?  Does he have a body or is he a spirit?

The more I discuss about this book on this forum the more convinced that this book is going to be awesome!  I can't wait to do my re-read; however, I'm not going to start it until I know when the final book will be published.  I'm hoping to be on book 7 or 8 when I buy the final volume.

[Shaggy]

Yeah, I always like to reread the series, before reading the next installment, too. Unfortunately, that takes a rather long time with RJ's books 

[Reaves]

OK. Just want to put this thought out there. So we have the Wheel, from which comes the One Power (Saidin and Saidar). We have the bad dude, the Dark One, from whom comes the True Power. But where's the Light dude? And even if there isn't one, or not yet (Rand?), couldn't there be a Light power? Everyone is always referring to the 'Light' like it's all the good in the world–but what if it's more than that? What if it is an unknown, untapped resource? Just a thought….

Man, its been so long since I've read Eye of the World. But that kinda sounds like what you're talking about: the eye of the world, the purified power there. I forget how exactly it was worded, if Moiraine actually said it was purified saidin or not. Maybe that could be a foretaste of what Rand uses at the last battle.

Now that I think about it, if the Eye was actually purified saidin you'd think Rand would have at least had some kind of recognition between the cleansed saidin and the power he used at the Eye.

[Some_Guy]

I'm rather new here, and I'll admit to not having read the last two pages of this thread, but I have a question that I doubt has been raised and which I think is extremely relevant to predicting the story's end.

Has anyone compiled a complete list of the foreshadowing's/prophecies/viewings dealing with Rand's death, the Last Battle, and the other major characters? Such a list would be incredibly useful for predicting what's going to happen. For example I've noticed a lot of people doubting whether rand will actually die, rather than die in a metaphorical sense. It seems to me that these people forget Min's viewing early in the series of three women standing of Rand on a funeral bier (herself one of them if memory serves). A complete list of these foreshadowings etc.. might prevent such misunderstandings (or even prove me wrong if there's something I'm forgetting).

Anyway, if no one's done that yet I might well start on it. I've been hankering to re-read the series in its entirety, and it seems like I might as well get some practical use out of it.

[Publius]

I don't think that anyone has compiled such a list before.  I think that would be fun to read and theorize about.  If I may make a suggestion how to go about it.  If I was compiling such a list I would start by getting a highlighter and whenever I came across a prophecy I'd highlight it and take not of book, page paragraph.  That way it wouldn't disrupt my reading as much.  That way when I would post I could give a brief description of the prophecy, give reference , and my opinion of what it said.  I think that would be the most enjoyable way of doing it instead of typing out every prophecy verbatim.  This is just a suggestion, you do it anyway you want to.   I like the idea.

If you go back a few pages you can read about our thoughts on who's going to die and who's not.  I personally have predicted that Rand, Perrin, and Avienda and perhaps even Min will die.  I also explained why I thought Rand wouldn't live to marry Min, Elayne, and Avienda; however, that was made by using admittedly shallow information, and a few people called me on it.  I still  stand by those predictions even though I admit that I could see mass resurrections in the last chapter.

Let's change gears now.  I was thinking of the last battle and noticed that everyone seems to fit into a particular battle in the end.  Rand will fight the dark one.  Perrin and the wolves will fight the dark friends.  Egwene and the Aes Sedai will battle the Black Ajah, and so on, and so on.  Where does Mat fit in?  He kind of seems out of place to me.  What does the signet ring and the medallion mean?  We know the nine moons means Tuon, but what does the fox chasing two ravens mean?  What's the medallion supposed to be meant for.  I know what the medallion does, but what is it meant for? 

Mat seems to be the wild card in all this.  He's always late to the party in this series. Rand found out he was the Dragon Reborn, Perrin found out about his wolve senses long before Mat discovered his luck.  Likewise, Rand found all his women, Perrin found Faile long before Mat found Tuon.  So I wonder where Mat fits in any ideas? 

What's the significance between Perrin choosing between the Hammer and the Ax?  If you hit someone in the face with either on of those and neither is a pretty sight.  Prophecy said that bad things happened if he picked the ax, but is there  any significance to the hammer that we know of?

[jjb]

The fox chasing two ravens... I think the fox would represent Mat, something to do with the Aelfinn or whatever they're called.  The two ravens could be both the Seanchan and the Dark One. So Mat is chasing the Seanchan(Tuon) and hunting the Dark One(or anyone associated with him) or something like that.

As for Perrin's hammer and axe I think choosing the axe would have meant he enjoyed killing and that would cause his destruction. But by choosing the hammer he was saying that he didn't like violence and he was only fighting when he was needed.