A Memory of Light

[Necroben]

Necroben- How many thirteen-book series' have you read where major characters die halfway through?

None.  On the other hand, they didn't die at all.  Taking that much time with a character then killing them really proves nothing (to my mind) with the story other than the author can.  From what I've seen of series that have ten+ books major characters live.  It seems a staple of the Epic Fantasy sub-genre.

[Publius]

I’m torn in how I think the ending will go.  I agree that it doesn’t seem to be RJ’s style to start whacking people at the end, but it also would seem to be anti-climatic to have a final battle where only the bad guys die.  I think some of the good guys have to die in one form or another, don’t they?  I could see that while Rand was battling the Dark One, that characters would sacrifice themselves to protect Rand from sabotage.  Sacrificing one’s self for the greater good fits into RJ’s writing style doesn’t it?  Moraine did it.  They could be resurrected later after the battle.  Didn’t Rand bring Mat back to life after accidentally killing him once?  Or after dying they could be sent to the world of dreams where they could be communicated with. 

This was the first fantasy series I have ever read, before that I only read political thrillers and historical non-fiction.  Robert Jordan is the first author that caused me to lose days off, where I would spend all day reading.  Brandon Sanderson is the only other author that has caused me to lose days off.  With that being said, I will be so disappointed if this series ends where the good guys win, the bad guys die, and Rand and his three wives live happily ever after…so disappointed…

[IngtarWhoStoleChristmas]

RJ hasn't really shown an inclination to kill anyone but bad guys in his previous works.  And since this series seems to be his Epic Fantasy written from the stereotype (genre), I think that he would have continued along in that vein.  Since Epic Fantasy was mainly about escapism, the ultimate cost of death really isn't satisfying.

That said, Visions and prophesies have already alluded to Rand surviving.  Min had a vision in which he and The Dragon would split.  Rand took that to mean that he was not insane, that the voice in his head was real.  Along with most of the other Visions, and Reaves' take about the Christ symbolism; I would think that Rand survives and Lews Therin Telamon (who wants to die), sacrifices himself for the good of all mankind.  Or something like that.

***SPOILER****









Elayne is already pregnant with Rand's babies......

[Vatdoro]

I can't wait to read the end of WoT no matter how it ends. From the way the rest of the books have ended I think few (if any) of the main characters will die. In fact, none of the original main characters from the first book (and their significant other(s)) have died (permanently) in any of the other 11 books. It has taken 11 books for some of these characters to finally find their significant other. I don't expect RJ to kill any of them off in the last book. It seems like RJ has gone through too much work to tell the story of all these different characters and finally get them with their right partners to not let any of them live past the end of AMOL. Having said that I'm sure the ending will be gut wrenching and incredible, like many of the endings have been in WoT. Having said that, I think the story should end however RJ wanted it to end, if he ends up killing some of the main characters then it will be a surprise to me, but that would then be the "correct" ending. It's his story. 

About Rand ... The foreshadowing and prophecies seem to hint Rand will sacrifice himself and (probably) die at Tarmon Gaiden. I think Rand/Lews Theron will somehow die, but somehow live when it's all said and done. I'm sure RJ will add some cool twists in there and surprise us to how that will all happen. I'm sure if I were to try and guess any more specifically then that I would be completely wrong, but those are currently my general guesses for AMOL.

[Reaves]

SPOILER








Elayne is already pregnant with Rand's babies......

!!! quicktheorytimenow!!!!

Elayne is Ilyena reborn, Lews Therin's wife. That's why Rand loves her.
Min is who Rand would have loved if he wasn't the Dragon.
Avhienda is an affect of the Rand/Moridin connection; if Moridin were Rand, he would have loved Avhienda.

...Either that, or each of the three girls is 1/3 of Ilyena reborn.

[Shaggy]

Vatdoro–As I have already said…how many 13-book series' have you read where main characters die in the beginning? None, I bet. So of course Rand, Matin, Perrin, Moiraine, etc. haven't died yet!

Analogy–a story is like a pattern. Each character is a thread, and other threads (other characters and events) split off from that thread. Cut one main thread, and an entire part of the story could be cut off.

[Bookstore Guy]

You can't blame the man; he's just ignorant! (Although he is rather annoying….)

In response to the book store guy…read "Mistborn."

I gotta assume the "read Mistborn" comment is for me.  I have.  I read it more than 6 months before it was released.  I pimped it out at the Black Friday signing Brandon did for Elantris back in the day.  I Set up Brandon's pre-release signing for Mistborn 1 which was a pretty huge success.  All that being said, your comment makes no sense.  I was commenting that I doubted many main characters--good guys anyway--would die (if any).  That's just not how this story has been told so far.  If the ending RJ wrote has some deaths in it, fine, but it will make it harder for me to buy-into.  Mistborn doesn't follow any of this theory-crafting.  Brandon isn't shy about killing off characters in his own books.  But AMoL isn't his book.  The ending is already written.  So, I'm confused what you mean.

I'm pretty sure Necroben is thinking along the same lines as me.  Oh, and as far as Major Fantasy Series having MAJOR characters getting killed off early, it happens all the time.  Erikson and Martin are the big players in that realm.

Yes, my response is late.  I don't really read these boards much.

[Shaggy]

Remember Kelsier?

[douglas]

Remember Kelsier?

I fail to see how that is relevant.  This isn't Brandon's book, the list of who lives and who dies was written by Robert Jordan.

[Shaggy]

Who are you?

And I don't even remember what we were talking about.

[happyman]

A couple of thoughts to help throw fire on this debate:

1) The entire Wheel of Time series is one story.  Sure, the first book has a halfway decent ending, but even it has some dangling ends (like the last paragraph).  Thus it is absolutely impossible to know who lives and who dies based on previous books.  I've only read one story by RJ (the Wheel of Time) and I haven't seen the end, so his "death style" is completely unknown.  Some main characters will certainly survive.  Some may well die.

2) There seems to be some fairly heavy foreshadowing and symbolism that Rand will be a Christic character.  However, this is not the only character he has symbolic links to (King Arthur and various gods come to mind; see the Wheel of Time FAQ for a much better list than I could do).  Thus it is eminently reasonable to assume that something very odd will happen with his death (I personally would be very surprised if it didn't), but more than a little bit hazardous to guess what, exactly, the oddity will be.  A few choices, with no particular attachment on my part to each:

a) He fakes his death and then comes back at a key moment.   To the public it large, it looks like he has died and been resurrected.

b) Very unusual circumstances combine to actually resurrect him after an actual death.  Nynaeve may be involved.

c) Lews Therin dies/gets reintegrated but Rand continues.

d) He actually dies and somebody else somehow steps in to take his place perfectly.

Anyway, I refuse to be drawn beyond these assumptions.  I just like to keep an open mind about what is possible.

[Publius]

Oh, and as far as Major Fantasy Series having MAJOR characters getting killed off early, it happens all the time.  Erikson and Martin are the big players in that realm.

I'm going to argue that with the exception of Kelsier from Mistborn, that if a major character dies early in a series he's not really that major of a character.  Kelsier is different because he is the foundation of a religion, so the series would be vastly different if he didn't die.

a) He fakes his death and then comes back at a key moment.   To the public it large, it looks like he has died and been resurrected.

Why would he fake his death in the last book?  That would fit about as nicely as having the Enola Gay fly over Tarmon Gai'don and drop a atomic bomb on everyone...

[Loud_G]

a) He fakes his death and then comes back at a key moment.   To the public it large, it looks like he has died and been resurrected.

b) Very unusual circumstances combine to actually resurrect him after an actual death.  Nynaeve may be involved.

c) Lews Therin dies/gets reintegrated but Rand continues.

d) He actually dies and somebody else somehow steps in to take his place perfectly.

Anyway, I refuse to be drawn beyond these assumptions.  I just like to keep an open mind about what is possible.

Or one that I kind of like:

e) He dies and his essence/spirit/soul take over someone elses body.

(I agree, I don't see him faking his death.)

[Bookstore Guy]

Remember Kelsier?

I fail to see how that is relevant.  This isn't Brandon's book, the list of who lives and who dies was written by Robert Jordan.

Exactly.  What does Kelsier making a martyr of himself have to do with RJ's WoT?  Im not picking a fight, im just saying that we need to keep the 2 stories separate.

Oh, and as far as Major Fantasy Series having MAJOR characters getting killed off early, it happens all the time.  Erikson and Martin are the big players in that realm.

I'm going to argue that with the exception of Kelsier from Mistborn, that if a major character dies early in a series he's not really that major of a character.  Kelsier is different because he is the foundation of a religion, so the series would be vastly different if he didn't die.

No disrespect to my friend Brandon, but he hardly has the monopoly on being the only author to have an important character die early on.  If you have read Martin, then you know that Edard Stark was an EXTREMELY important character.  If you've read Erikson, then you know that Whiskyjack was perhaps the MOST important character up until the point he bites it.  By your same argument, the entire face of these fantasy series (6 total stories in Martin's world and 13 in Erikson's) would have been drastically altered.  However, I do agree with you that the death of a character hardly matters in the least if their death has no ramifications on the rest of the story.

 

1) The entire Wheel of Time series is one story.  Sure, the first book has a halfway decent ending, but even it has some dangling ends (like the last paragraph).  Thus it is absolutely impossible to know who lives and who dies based on previous books.  I've only read one story by RJ (the Wheel of Time) and I haven't seen the end, so his "death style" is completely unknown.  Some main characters will certainly survive.  Some may well die.

I see what you are saying, but my opinion is that this isnt fully accurate.  I feel it is pretty easy to tell how a story may be told from the previous portions of a story.  Brandon killed off Kelsier in the "first section" of the story.  So it was full expected of him to kill of main characters in "parts" 2 and 3.  George R R Martin makes it pretty obvious after the first part of his story that no one is safe.  Erikson is the same.  Joe Abercrombie has his own pattern.  No matter how long the story, or how many volumes it is broken up into, you begin to see a pattern to individual stories.  Now, RJ could very well have decided that he wanted to kill everyone at the end, but i doubt it.  His early sections of the story dont show any precedent for that.  He cares too much for them, and has worked too many loop-holes into the series to allow for the escape of whomever he desires.

[Hero of Ages]

No disrespect to my friend Brandon, but he hardly has the monopoly on being the only author to have an important character die early on.  If you have read Martin, then you know that Edard Stark was an EXTREMELY important character.  If you've read Erikson, then you know that Whiskyjack was perhaps the MOST important character up until the point he bites it.  By your same argument, the entire face of these fantasy series (6 total stories in Martin's world and 13 in Erikson's) would have been drastically altered.  However, I do agree with you that the death of a character hardly matters in the least if their death has no ramifications on the rest of the story.

Orson Scott card did it in Empire and Isaac asimov did it in the Foundation series as well.