Ascension, Chapters 3 & 4 12/29/08

[Yusuke]

Apparently since Chaos told me I needed to create a topic, here it is.  Now the next installment of Ascension can be eaten alive =D lol. If I remember correctly, Chapter three had a lot of fighting, so the normal "Violence" rating might be an understatement >.< hehe... Anyways, I'll dropkick myself into silence so you can have at it =3.

[jjb]

5000 words is a bit long, you probably should have done only one chapter.


I didn't really like the fighting scene. To me, it seemed to take much too long. Raven seems much more powerful than however long it took him to kill the thirty guards. And at the slow rate he was killing them, it seemed to me like they should have injured him more.

I still don't like such an anger-filled character being so important. I guess we're seeing some different sides to him.

[Frog]

Well I read it, and as such I feel duty bound to try and give you some of my impressions, but this is going to be a hard one for me because as much as I tried to like it or at least find specific things to pick out and focus on, it just didn’t end up happening.
First, because of the all the graphic V at the beginning, I had to resort to wincing and skimming, which of course you warned me about so I have no one to blame but myself but at the same time I have to wonder how necessary it all was. There was just so much of it and it got… redundant. It’s sad to say because we are talking about a bunch of deaths, but it’s true (How were they even able to find 30 men willing to stand there in the first place?).
So now I really dislike Raven, who seems to be obviously the MC at this point, and even when I could see you trying to redeem him with the sister and stuff at the end, all I could think was, ‘forget about it buddy, you killed millions and they are just threatening to kill one person that I don't know enough about to really care about. No sympathy points what-so-ever.’
And then you obviously set up the other two (though they seem to have a bit more depth to them then before) to be villainous as well and I am left with no one to like, and since I am a very character driven reader/writer that is a hard state for me to be in.
So even though your plot, pacing and magic system (it seems pretty complicated, but in a good way) and writing style in general seems to be well thought out and moving right along (if a bit circular/redundant at times) this would be a very hard book for me to read. The only reason I would is if you give me some hope that Raven’s going to make a complete turn around or be thoroughly smacked around by another character that I can relate to better.
I hope at least some of that was helpful and I really do wish you the best of luck.

[Chaos]

All I'll say is: Raven is not the hero of the story. You can't even call him an anti-hero at this point, he's so dark.

[Frog]

Well, that's a relief... but if that's the case I would suggest cutting a lot this stuff down because it's getting to be a bit far in the book to still have a hero I still haven't met yet.

[Reaves]

This story actually kinda interests me, if only to figure out stuff like how the magic system works and who the main character really is. Also, with all of Chaos' cryptic comments I want to give Raven time to redeem himself.

When I first started reading I thought to myself that Raven seems a bit more sympathetic than in the first two chapters. We'll see if that continues as I read further.

  “I’ll make sure there‘s nothing left of him to survive this time!” muttered Raven angrily to himself.

Ordinarily people don't talk to themselves. If that is going to be part of his character, externalize more of his thoughts so its not so jarring.

Also, how can they even fit 80+ soldiers into a bombed out building!!?? And how do they convince 30 more soldiers to fight Raven after watching an even greater number being torn apart?

The sound they emitted was an indescribably ominous noise, which immediately caught Valan’s attention.

Don't tell us it was ominous-describe the noise.

  Raven came blasting out towards the troops from the left. He had the sword in his left hand drawn completely back, and the sword in his right was almost curving around to his left side--pointed diagonally backwards.

I am not able to see this in my mind. Its a bit unclear.

wow, that fight is really gory. Please ignore the part at the beginning where I said Raven seemed more sympathetic.

Do you know what a Soul Stone is?”“No, I haven’t heard of something with such an idiotic name,”

this makes me sad 

I really think you should introduce the hero or at least show some confliction in Raven about what he is doing. Nobody is interested in an utterly one-sided character.

[Yusuke]

Hmmm, well, first I should start off by saying that this will not be a book.  We have plans to turn this into an anime/manga.  This is basically just a very in-depth fan-fic, well, I hope it's in-depth lol.  Even though I got positive reviews from the other two people who are part of Ascension, it's refreshing to get other people's opinions.  When I say that I mean people that know nothing about it.  After all, that's what it will come down to even in anime/manga form.  Everyone seems to hate Raven, which is exactly what we were expecting lol. 

All the negative reviews on all the gore/violence (well it wasn't really positive =P) makes me think it does need to be, hmmmm what's the word, I guess...redone?  By that I mean not so much gore.  I'm not really sure, have to think about it.  Although, I would appreciate some opinions on what could be done about this...  It's also a little frustrating not being able to explain why Ascension starts out with Raven >.<;.  That would require spoilers on top of story explaining and more spoilers, etc.  I can say that Chapter Five will be renewing to those that dislike and want a break from Raven *cougheveryonecough*.

So now I really dislike Raven, who seems to be obviously the MC at this point, and even when I could see you trying to redeem him with the sister and stuff at the end, all I could think was, ‘forget about it buddy, you killed millions and they are just threatening to kill one person that I don't know enough about to really care about. No sympathy points what-so-ever.’

Honestly I expected very little to no sympathy points lol.

So even though your plot, pacing and magic system (it seems pretty complicated, but in a good way) and writing style in general seems to be well thought out and moving right along

Well, actually we had agreed that a sort of "schedule" would keep me and everyone on track.  However, that schedule was one chapter every three days.  Even though it was a revision on the other chapters we did, it still was extremely exhausting trying to write the way I did with something that I was really trying to make phenomenal.  So in the end I may just end up rewriting all these chapters once again, because I really want Ascension to work.  Although, I'll be taking my time and going over it many times before submitting it if I do choose this option...  I plan to talk to Chaos today about Ascension, and now I think it's really not an option =P.

Also, how can they even fit 80+ soldiers into a bombed out building!!?? And how do they convince 30 more soldiers to fight Raven after watching an even greater number being torn apart?

Well, I might as well just tell you that those soldiers were tricked into it lol.  We ALL knew they would never do it willingly hehe (Or at least I think that's what we decided to do).  Next, about your 80+ soldiers comment, I have to ask that you refer to piece I typed just above your quote where I talked about the schedule.  It's really difficult (even though it was a major revision) to fit and put in everything I wanted in a time span of three days >.<;.  Note to Chaos- Remind me to dropkick Zen...  I do agree that it needs more describing and explaining.  This also makes me lean more towards redoing it all over again...

I have to say that I enjoyed hearing opinions from people who don't know anything about Ascension.  It's really made me rethink a lot of things, and reinforce some things I've been thinking about.  Really gotta hand it to Chaos for talking me into doing this lol, it was definitely worth it.  *Super Awesome Hugs Everyone* lol...

[Reaves]

Once you said anime/manga, everything sorta came together. I think it would be great in that context. You don't quite get into Raven's head as much and a lot of the action would work great where you can just show it instead of having to describe it. Also the violence/gore would fit into the graphic anime/manga niche there.

[Frog]

I'm with Reaves (seem to be saying that a lot lately, not that it's a bad thing...). I like Manga and this would probably work better in that context. Still would like some more hints that there will actually be a hero in this story, but hey, you can't have everything.

*Super Awesome Hugs Everyone*

So totally Manga