Author Topic: Union V Confederacy  (Read 5341 times)

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2008, 05:13:04 PM »
There are those you use "Yankee" as an insult. I use it as a descriptor, myself.

Understanding why the South still has the Civil War in mind is primarily two places. a great deal of the famous battles took place south of the Mason-Dixon (Gettysburg the first and most obvious exception, and even it isn't very far from the border). We live with that reality reminding us of our history.

The second is Reconstruction. No one hurt the South more than John Wilkes Booth. Lincoln didn't want retribution or revenge for the war. He wanted to unify the nation as much after the fighting as he did during it. Because he was killed and Johnson took over the White House, Republicans running the Congress had pretty much free reign to inflict any punishment and indignity they wanted on Southern states. (Please note that Republicans in the 19th century were not the same as modern Republicans, I'm not trying to draw parallels here).  The South and her (white) citizens were oppressed by the Federal government. Yes, they were still trying to find ways to maintain blacks as, at best, a second class citizen. But the North *was* making the South a second-class region. That's not the sort of resentment a people gets over very fast. To this day there is still a prominent stereotype across the country of Southerners being lazy, inbred, and/or ignorant. So there's a lot of defensiveness that goes into distinguishing ourselves as well.

The U.S. is a huge country, geographically. There's a lot of people here as well. 300 million may make it less dense than a place like the UK, but that separation contributes to a separation, culturally of regions. In the North you see it too. New Yorkers are not like Bostonians, generally speaking. Growing up in different regions even within the same nation when it's this large leads to differences in outlook and beliefs. Naturally the people don't want to be treated the same any more than a rural farmer is interested in the same issues as a mid-city business executive.

One distinction that has been pointed out to me is that when a Southerner wants to know more about you, he begins by asking where you're from. When a Yankee wants to know the same thing, he asks what you do for a living. To me, in many instances, that's explained quite a bit.

GreenMonsta

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2008, 05:31:19 PM »
New Yorkers are not like Bostonians, generally speaking.

This I can attest to personally. It is actually where some of the aggravation with being called a Yankee comes from. I mean come on, one of the last things I as a Bostonian would want to be connected to is Yankee.

I have to give it to you. You are right. Southerners live with constant reminders of the past and I can see why its hard to just move on. I also can say that being from the north there is a sentiment that Southerners in general are slow and lazy. Now don't get me wrong, not everyone thinks this but it is a common idea. The main thing we notice is that southern lifestyle in general is at a slightly lower pace and the people are generally nicer than we northerners are used to (at least us urban ones).

I can see why its hard for northerners to understand why the Southerners still talk and refer to the civil war. We as northerners live the history of the revolutionary war every day. Like I said before my town is just south of Boston and there has been so much history here I can barely take it all in. I would guess that's why I for one look at things the way I do. I mean there is a spot in my neighborhood where Abigale Adams watched the Battle of Bunker Hill. So I would guess that the difference is understandable.
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mtlhddoc2

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2008, 08:48:12 PM »
alot of good points made here.

I am Irish and still harbor a general resentment of England, even though I personally never suffered at British hands, I did know many people who did, some were family as well. I have also lived in a great many parts of the Northeast rural and urban areas, and I can tell you, I have seen and heard the word "rebel" used towards those with a southern bent, in the same manner they use Yankee, just a term used, not a put down.

Also, the "Southern" lifestyle (redneck, some might call it) is really a farmland lifestyle and mannerism. If you visit farmland anywhere from Pennsylvania to Vermont, people talk and act the same way as those from Mississippi or Texas in alot of way. The accent might be a bit different, but the speech patterns are the same, and the "slowness" is the same. Also, in some northeastern areas, Civil War thought processes are still in place. This is especially true in Pennsylania and upstate New York, and even in southern New Jersey and Delaware. Maryland is an oddball because peopel there STILL fight over which side they should have been on. Maryland, back then, was kind of a swing state, as was Virginia.

But largely, these mannerisms, from both top and bottom of the east coast, are largely kept among people who can trace their roots back through the civil war. Those of us that have US roots which begin later, have different outlooks. My latent-dislike for the British comes from my grandfather, who started his US life as a young boy watching British soldiers beat Irish expatriots as they were forced to board a ship bound for America. And from a great-grandmother, who starved as a child during teh Potato famine while the british blockaded Irish ports from recieving food.

But I dont REALLY hate the British, it is just a passed on cultural habit. Hard to break, really, this uber-Irish patriotism, even though I have never been to Ireland.

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2008, 11:54:07 PM »
It may be worth noting that some Europeans (and even some Asians) will use the term "Yankee" to refer to any American.  As a Westerner, I don't get called "Yankee" by other Americans, and it always disgruntles me just a touch to hear Europeans (etc.) calling me a Yankee.
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Loud_G

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2008, 03:16:50 AM »
I embrace the name Yank or Yankee when talking to my British friends :)

Though I did the same with the term "Gringo" when I lived in Mexico :)



I was born in the west (not mid-west) west west, but I grew up in Maryland and consider myself a northeasterner. I do tend to eschew all things southern. I don't hate the South, but I would never want to live South of Maryland....It must be in the water.
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GreenMonsta

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2008, 01:50:27 PM »
I agree. I lived in SC for three months and I could barely take it. I dont hate it but for some reason I dont think I could survive very long. Its a nice place, its just a nice place for other people.
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The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2008, 03:05:27 PM »
Heh, i did BYU. Lived for years in Utah. I don't want to go back.

I would like to note that there are a lot of similarities between farm life in the south and in the north, that's not the whole defining trait of the South. Urban life in the South is very different from Urban life in the North. Even DC, which was Union, is in many ways Southern. Certainly cities like Charlotte and Atlanta have more similarities with each other than they do New York or Boston.

And yeah, I have an Austrian friend who calls me a Yank every now and then. Ticks me off. Which is probably why he keeps doing it.

It was once said that in the world, a Yankee is someone who lives in the US.
In the US, a Yankee is someone who lives in the northeast.
In the northeast US, a Yankee is someone who lives in Connecticut.
In Connecticut, a Yankee is someone who still has an outhouse.

GreenMonsta

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2008, 03:17:51 PM »
I like it SE. I also agree that there are still differences between southern and northern farmers. Although there are similarities due to their occupation the differences are still noticeable. And I am with you that Southern cities don't quite compare to Norther ones. Heck I almost got into three accidents driving to work this morning and that because everyone thinks they are more important than everyone else.
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mtlhddoc2

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2008, 03:41:31 PM »
Comparing cities is really not as important, my point was, that rural people, wherever they are from, have more in common with each other, including mannerisms, than they do with city peopel, even local cities. Go out to Vermont and you will find plenty of "rednecks" running around in overalls, chewing on grass, in barefeet etc. And When I lived in rural Penn and NJ, same thing. My friends who live in rural SC, same thing. Thats rural/farmland living, no matter where you are in the country (or continent). But go to any city and you will see the same thing, horrible disinterested traffic with rude people who cannot get where they are going fast enough. People who talk really fast and who would never think of going barefoot anywhere but a shag carpet.

GreenMonsta

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2008, 03:54:37 PM »
I agree and disagree. Yes the rural people will have more in common. As I posted in my last post, this is due to their occupation. I mean you can pick any occupation across the country and say that people who have that job will have more in common than people who don't. The difference is in how they act in their personal life. I also disagree with the idea that city people are much the same no matter what city they come from. This is not true. Yes their lifestyles are the same but if you have ever lived in a city in the south and then one in the north you would find significant differences and not just thier styles of cooking.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 04:06:41 PM by AbominableMonsta »
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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2008, 07:39:55 PM »
well, I have never lived in a couthern city, but I have lived in 4 northeastern cities (Morristown, Allentown, NYC, Providence) and I have visited a handful of southern cities, plus Quebec and Montreal in Canada. My opinion remains the same. all "cityfolk" were rude and obnoxious regardless of where the city was located. For the most part, the countryfolk in all of the areas were kind and generous. Regardless of what occupation they held, this, in my experience, has been true across the board. There are other similarities between cityfolk, and other similarities among countryfolk which I will not go into (some may be regarding sensitive topics like religion, politic and hygiene)

GreenMonsta

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2008, 08:38:31 PM »
Providence as in Providence RI (little Boston). That city is not the one you want if it is the one your talking about.
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mtlhddoc2

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2008, 10:26:20 PM »
Yes, Providence RI. I live about 5 miles from it now. And no, it is not little Boston, not by a long shot. Providence has a more Italian and Portuguese flavor, while Boston is very Irish.

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2008, 01:21:22 AM »
You live in like Cranston or Warwick area??? Or like Pawtucket??? I know but thats what we call it.
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mtlhddoc2

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Re: Union V Confederacy
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2008, 04:31:18 AM »
I just moved out of Warwick into Tiverton actually (right on the Fall River border).