Spectre's End - Dec 08

[Karl]

Welcome to the Spectre series.

This is a work that has been completed for a while, but is part of an ongoing series. As I've worked on later stories I've had to revisit this one to recon info into it that wasn't there to begin with.

This is also the shortest of the stories so far, but is intentionally so because once filmed would probably be the one with the smallest budget.

[Reaves]

Well the story you sent out was almost twice as long as I was expecting, so sorry to say but I didn't get to read all of it, but from what I've read so far it looks pretty good. I don't really know how to judge a screenplay but your ideas are solid and the dialogue seems fine.

[Necroben]

If the MC is not catholic, why is he performing what seems to be catholic rituals?

Very interesting, I really like the incorporation of different mythoi into the story.  But as a film how long would this be?  Have you ever thought about actually writing it out in story form?

[Karl]

The rule of thumb in film making is 1 minute per page, so at 22 pages about 20-30 minutes.

The protestant minister in an otherwise Catholic institution is elaborated upon in later stories. For now it is just one of those unexplained anomolies.

Given the amount of time and effort it has taken to create the scripts so far, I don't anticipate refitting them into prose. I'm hoping this Spring to start a serious fund raising drive to get it produced.

[Silk]

Yeah, I'd pin this at about 30 minutes after reading it...

I have your order! One, ahem, slightly overdue "tough love" critique for you, sir. A response to the discussion first...

I didn't have a problem with John performing Catholic rituals. I thought it was pretty clearly implied from the beginning that there was a reason for this that didn't have much to do with religion, and I think the later stuff with the circle makes it pretty much explicit. We don't know why, sure, but the fact that there was a reason was enough for me.

And my own comments on it. I pretty much just wrote down my reactions as I was reading, so these aren't organized in any particular way:

So, I’m reading some of these montages (if you want to call it that) of images – I think the images are great, by the way – and wondering if you’re intending to set them to music, or what. Some of these montages are quite long without much to break them up, but you do include sounds like the static on John’s radio and John trying to call for help, or Peter muttering to himself in Latin, without writing these things into the actual dialgoue. I think it was only the presence of the sounds that made me wonder if there was music as well. I’m not sure you really NEED to include music for any of these. I’m not sure that you should. And unless you’re writing your own music there are copyright issues and such to be dealt with. It might be more trouble than it’s worth. On the other hand, watching something in silence can be very effective and dramatic. And it might be more so if we’re not watching these montages, in their entirety and/or every time, in silence. So, I don’t know. Something to think about. Tough call.

This is entirely my near-complete ignorance of screenplay formatting, but … What is OTS?

I kind of liked how you brought John’s Sight into things, and the “does-he-does-he-not-have-it” you seemed to be leading up to. I was a bit surprised that you revealed the answer so soon. But I liked how the reveal was done.

Um, it almost seems as if John kind of … euthanizes Peter. Or something. I mean, telling Peter he saw him standing before Uriel, then putting him to sleep –  I think I could read that and realize that that wasn’t your intention. But after Peter goes to sleep, John seems to lose all of his urgency – my initial interpretation was that yes, Peter needed to rest, but John also needed to get the heck out – and that makes me not entirely sure what you intended. (Even though he does get up and go somewhere else in the next few lines. Maybe he was just taking a few moments to grieve before moving on. But it does seem that he only moved on because of an external impetus.)

At the top of page eight, after he takes a shower in the rainwater, John goes to grab his body armour, and then decides to leave it behind. I thought this particular moment was very effective.

I’m quite certain this is just something I’m missing. In fact, I swear  I knew this once – but I don’t know what you mean when you say calling the corners, which you mention twice when John draws the circle with his dagger and blesses it.

The Latin, the Latin! Darn you! I keep trying to translate the Latin! How dare you make me realize I have forgotten everything I learned in Latin 300 two years ago?

Am I supposed to think Thomas is a jerk? Because by the time he makes his remark about John being safely nestled away in tomes of forgotten lore, I kind of do. Not a problem – as long as that’s what you’re going for.

Thomas breathing on nothing and having it steam up the surface of … nothing… is a really cool image.

Now Tom is talking about stuff and apparently annoying John after John’s told him he’s trying to meditate. Yeah, still think he’s a jerk.

You’ve done a good job though, preparing us for what we learn about the relationship between Tom and John. I had a fairly good sense of that before they even told us too much.

As Tom talks I’m starting to think he’s a likeable jerk. (Don’t ask me how that works. I can enjoy his dialogue and still think he’s not very nice.) But still a jerk. Not in an overbearing kind of way; just some of the little things he said are convincing me not to like him very much. He’s totally convinced me though.

By saying this, I don’t mean to imply that the relationship was uninteresting before, because it wasn’t. But the relationship between John and not-quite-Tom is REALLY interesting.

The quote on the very bottom of the page, where Tom is talking about days of wrath and distress and whatnot, and then starts laughing – what a wonderfully dramatic moment. Seriously.

I waited until I’d read the end of the piece (which, by the way, was great) to say this: I feel a bit like I’m missing out on all the Biblical references and stuff, having never read the Bible. I never was entirely sure WHAT exactly possessed Thomas, for instance, and I wasn’t sure if the Biblical passages quoted revealed that. The song was also very intriguing, and I wondered if there was some significance to it that I was missing out on.

But do I NEED to know these things? I’m leaning towards “no” as an answer. I do feel like there are things I’m missing out on, because I lack the religious background. But the things I’m missing are specific details that I can get by without. I have the gist of it, I have the important stuff (I think. Maybe I don’t. That’s always the question.). I don’t think there is anything I’m not getting that I absolutely MUST.

Hmm, about that ending. I don’t think you should change the events or even the dialogue. But it does seem just a tad too abrupt. I’m hesitant to suggest this, because I have no idea what it would be – but maybe you could give us some kind of image, or something? Just think it might give us that bit of additional resonance. And an additional moment to really process the ending  - because it is a bit of a shock (not in a bad way) before the credits roll.

Really enjoyed reading this. I think your characterization really shines.

Aaaand I'm done. *facepalm* I think I jinxed myself when I said my critique for WEKM went on. I hope these comments are half as helpful as they were long.

[Karl]

There is always a soundtrack rolling around in my head. Weather or not it actually makes it into the final film is questionsable, but at least it gives the idea of what I'm after.

I don't plan to use the original recordings, and would have local artist perform them.

The three specific songs for Spectre's End:

Rumble - by Link Wray & His Ray Men (across opening sequence)
Black Strap Molassas - performed by Groucho Marx, Jimmy Durante, Jane Wyman and Danny Kaye
Laboravi - composed by Gesualdo (over the scene titled 'Duel 2')

If I have a choice of title music for the entire series it would be Classical Gas by Mason Williams. Ah, one can dream...

[Silk]

Haha, one can.

You'd still have to deal with songwriter royalties, but it's probably less expensive/painful than dealing with the whole package. I don't really know, though. Not a copyright expert, I'm afraid.

This is why I write my own music.

[Karl]

And since someone asked: OTS -- Over The Shoulder. It's a camera angle.

I try to keep direct camera directions to a minimum, preferring to simply refer to what WE SEE.

I.E. "WE SEE down from the roof to the street below the waddling steps of the Sta-Puff Marshmellow Man." By saying this it implies a higher camera angle looking downwards, perhaps from a crane.  The WE in this case is the omniscient camera.

Other abbreviations that my show up from time to time are as follows:
FG/BG -- foreground/background.
CU -- close up
ECU -- extreme close up

I doubt I used any others in this series. These are really decisions that would be made by the director and cinematographer, and are not the problem for the writer to figure out (unless, like me, he is also the director).

[wcarter4]

I hesitate to post anything here at all since I know nothing of judging screenplays, but I like it. In terms of radio use for anything in the future you might want to avoid using any "10-" codes because they often overlap and are extremely inconsistent.

[Manyang]

As with the others I have very little experience with screenplays. In comparison to the ones I have read this one is a lot more detailed. But then, you’ve also written out the director’s view, which is normally not in the screenplay itself, from the little I know at least.
Since this is written for yourself there’s little point in going over small unclear things since you’ll know what you actually meant even if it’s not perfectly clear to an outside reader.

Overall I liked the story, you have a good atmosphere going on and the characters are well done.

Now I’ll get to the nitpicking.

Zombies and roundhouse kicks don’t go together. They are long established as slow stupid creatures that might lurch or something. Change the movement or have a predator creature kill him if you like the dynamics.

By having the predator run through the alley you give everything a sense of urgency. This is not carried through the next scenes, lots of talk in the deathscene, he then takes time to undress and take a shower, then performs rituals and only when he’s good and ready does the adversary make his entrance.
I would prefer it if the predator leisurely watches John from the roof as he passes. This will make Peter’s pointing to the roof seem a reference to the predator, and then have it watch as John takes that shower. This way you’d get more suspense than urgency, which goes better with the following scenes.

The deathscene seemed far too slow with two people telling each other who they are and what they should know. (This might be negated somewhat if you’d change the urgency to suspense)
Peter is looking into the face of eternal damnation yet speaks politely and has time to puzzle about John’s being there. If he is really just warding off death till his mind’s set at easy, which is implied by his dying as soon as that’s the case, he would be snappier and more absorbed by his own problems.

As John divulges he has seen Peter with Uriel behind him, having him look scared and dying shortly after will convey Uriel’s significance as well.

John seems to feel no sense of wonder about who’s operating the lights that guide him. He even feels safe enough to undress and take a shower. I have a hard time believing anyone but a very battle hardened veteran pull off such composure.

The circle is drawn indoors, I therefore assume a concrete floor and no way would a dagger be able to draw that circle into that.

Your use of Christian and Templar mythology is a bit confusing. His mentioning of Christ as his lord, his use of Latin and the catholic rituals are on one side. Yet on the other he dejects being called catholic, is a Templar (who were first endorsed by, and later betrayed by the Catholic Church.) and the temple of Solomon probably refers to the one raised by the Templars and not the original one. They are allowed only to use rituals used by any church, implying other non-Christian religious rituals would also work, and at the same time not adhering to a strict lore giving it a more agnostic appearance. Then in the end you mention his former colleague being an expert on pagan occultism, again going outside a Christian framework. And they refer to the original book of Jasher, implying a knowledge of changes being made in religious texts, but they also quote the bible without the acknowledgement of the changes made in that text.
To me this was confusing and I would prefer a single set of religious rules to serve as a framework for them to operate in. (even if you don’t mention them, it should at least make all of it more consistent.)

The part where John explains about all the missing agents seemed rather redundant, and also something Tom would know. The mere fact that his former colleague betrayed him would be enough incentive in itself because it’s more personal.

The conversation between John and Tom borders on lecture-ish, in combination with the visuals however I think you could make it work. Just be on guard that you’re stretching that conversation about as far as it will go.

Tom reminding John of his status with the Templars seems redundant. They both know, and his importance was established as soon as the dispatcher told people to specifically search for him.

The power corrupts cliché seems a bit weak, but might work out if John is preoccupied enough.

Establish a Church bell ringing in the background at the start of the duel to prove they waited until the time was there.


It’s at times hard to judge if something will or will not work because at some points the visuals will determine the pace. How that will work out in the end is virtually impossible to judge for me.
I am particularly curious though how you intend to use this as the opening of a series after killing all of the characters you established here.

[Karl]

Manyang , thanks for your imput.

As I go back and reread my own scripts the more I regret using the Zed word. I used it as a bit of shorthand so I didn't need to explain what was attacking Peter. As the series progressed, the less like Zeds these creature became (I started refering to them simply as 'drones'). In the long run, they will bear little resemblence to George A. Romero's Zeds.

More, but not all, is explained in the next script.

[Manyang]

With things like that the main thing is that you know what you mean, to some degree we're critiquing your notes. Some of it we will misunderstand but I suppose that's OK. You'll just have to filter out which of the comments are valid, and which stem from a lack of understanding of what you have in mind.

[Karl]

Nonetheless, I do take your comments seriously. If the average person is overly confused then I have failed to express myself well.

A side note: I reviewed the 'rituals' in the script, since a couple of you mentioned them. There are no Catholic-only rituals refer ed to in the story. The Anointings are all used by the Lutheran church that I grew up in, with the exception of Anointing a Monarch which is still used by the Anglican church. The 'Candlemas' ritual (setting the circle) is fictionalized, but based on a real ritual created by non-Catholic Christian occultist. Also Latin was the lingua franca of secular Europe up until the later part of the 19th century. However, I understand where using Latin + ritual + religion can be perceived as being exclusively Catholic -- as presented by a Hollywood viewpoint.

Eh, but here I go quibbling about details...