Author Topic: WOT Help  (Read 144848 times)

mtlhddoc2

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2008, 11:35:26 PM »
Morraine is more thoughroughly explained in the prequel: New Spring

Shadowkiller

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2008, 12:54:16 AM »
Beware, they spend many books exploring the magic system though I think much of it is fleshed out pretty well by book...4 or 5.    And Lan is also much more thoroughly explained in New Spring as well.   

Reaves

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2008, 01:53:52 AM »
Wow you like Mat?? Most people hate him until around book 3 or 4.
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maxonennis

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2008, 03:34:54 AM »
Lan=best character ever!
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douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2008, 04:52:32 AM »
My criticisms are that I still don't fully understand the system of magic
None of the viewpoint characters understand more than the extreme basics of that, so that shouldn't come as a surprise.  Your understanding of the magic system will grow mainly when viewpoint characters start learning it themselves.  For some of them this does start to happen in TGH, so you don't have long to wait.

there is way too much traveling.
The amount of traveling doesn't go down much at all, I think, but I imagine your real complaint is about the length of narrative spent on simply getting from point A to point B.  That does go down quite a bit as I recall.

My compliments are that I LOVE the world RJ made. Very thorough and well described, I feel like it could be a real world. I like how the heroes seem to have all the cards stacked against them and are up against some very tough enemies (when Aginor came at the end and busted them all up, I was like "Holy crap!!")
If you keep with the series you're up for a lot more like that.  The heroes get a lot more skilled and powerful as the story progresses, but I don't think it's much of a spoiler to say that there are 13 Forsaken, Aginor was relatively weak for a Forsaken and even he only lost because Rand caught him off guard, and all 13 survived the 3 millennia of their imprisonment and are now being released.  And they aren't the only powerful enemies the protagonists have to face.

I'm enthralled with the whole Legend of the Dragon Reborn stuff. I like all of the characters now and I'm enjoying their progressions. They've all changed a lot since the beginning of the book (except Lan and Moraine of course) I thought learning of Lan's history was awesome because he wasn't just another bodyguard. I would like to know more about Moraine and her history though. Hopefully, they explain the magic system and the legends more thoroughly in the next book. The index at the back of EOtW was helpful.
  Thanks for your input guys!!
If you think they've changed a lot now, just wait until you've finished the rest of the series!  There is a huge amount of character development throughout the series.

I don't think many specifics of the Prophecies of the Dragon get revealed in TGH, but they are extremely important to the main plot and there will be plenty more about them in the rest of the books.

The magic system is explained in large part by showing certain characters learn it.  In EotW there is a single expert and two potential novices (plus Rand, but he has no clue about his ability to channel until near the end), but all of them are so occupied by the plot that they have almost no time to do any teaching or learning.  This changes drastically in TGH.

The best source for more information on Moiraine and Lan's backstory is the prequel New Spring.  I'd suggest holding off on that until you're a little further into the main series, though.

Oh, and Lan's "not just another bodyguard" status still has a fair bit more to be revealed.

Comfortable Madness

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2008, 03:32:36 PM »
Wow you like Mat?? Most people hate him until around book 3 or 4.


Yeah that is pretty shocking. I really didn't like Mat and loved Perrin but as the story progresses that gets reversed, well, for me anyways.
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SarahG

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2008, 06:49:27 PM »
My criticisms are that I still don't fully understand the system of magic and and yes, mookla, there is way too much traveling. ... I feel the book could have used more action, (btw..when there was action, it was really good)

The others are absolutely right that you'll soon get more magic explanations, more action, and less time spent traveling.  Frankly, I found that last point rather annoying - it seemed like every time Jordan needed to get characters across the world fast, he thought up a new way to do it, and it felt gimmicky to me.  It detracted from the whole purpose of having such a (geographically) large world, and it also made all the people without access to the fast-traveling methods seem much weaker and more insignificant.  Of course, that's always the danger with magic systems - finding a way for people without the magic to matter.  The more powerful the magic, the greater that danger.

My compliments are that I LOVE the world RJ made. Very thorough and well described, I feel like it could be a real world.

It's a good thing you enjoy the descriptions and the well-fleshed-out world, because you'll get a lot of them.  Some readers (myself included) get frustrated with the amount of detail Jordan likes to include in every single scene.

The index at the back of EOtW was helpful.

You'll be using it more and more, if you're anything like me.
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JoeC

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2008, 11:45:31 PM »
Wow you guys are the best! I couldn't have asked for better help. Just so you guys know, The Great Hunt starts off with a bang and I am very much enjoying it. So much more than when I started EOTW. From what I've gathered reading your responses this is going to be a series I will like a lot. Apparently it just takes a little while to get there. Oh, and to answer your question, yes I liked Mat right away. He is mischievous and is described as having a face always on the brink of a smile, which reminds me of myself. There's never enough humor to go around, I say. Also, I'm finding his inner battle with the dagger VERY interesting. Just another side story, but a good one.
   It wasn't my intention to turn this thread into one that chronicles my progression through the WOT books, it's just turning out that way. LOL You guys are very helpful, but I also get a sense of joy that you guys like seeing someone else getting into a series that you love personally. Does it bring back memories?? I experienced the same thing with all the people I've gotten into Mistborn (counting six so far, two have completed the series.) I loved hearing about where they are in the story and what they think about it. Good stuff. So, if you guys feel the same, I'd be more than happy to give frequent updates. Plus, I would love to get into WOT discussions with you (so long as nothing gets spoiled!!! grr)
Thanks again guys.
-Joe

douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #68 on: December 05, 2008, 04:47:58 AM »
Also, I'm finding his inner battle with the dagger VERY interesting. Just another side story, but a good one.
Heh.  I'm not too sure "just" is the right word to use when talking about that one, but I should probably shut up now to avoid spoiling anything. ;)

It wasn't my intention to turn this thread into one that chronicles my progression through the WOT books, it's just turning out that way. LOL You guys are very helpful, but I also get a sense of joy that you guys like seeing someone else getting into a series that you love personally. Does it bring back memories?? I experienced the same thing with all the people I've gotten into Mistborn (counting six so far, two have completed the series.) I loved hearing about where they are in the story and what they think about it. Good stuff. So, if you guys feel the same, I'd be more than happy to give frequent updates. Plus, I would love to get into WOT discussions with you (so long as nothing gets spoiled!!! grr)
Thanks again guys.
-Joe
Yeah, the Wheel of Time is one of my top two most favorite series (the other is Mistborn, and I'm not sure which I like better), and talking about it with someone as he goes through it himself for the first time is quite enjoyable.

It's amazing how many seemingly minor characters and plot lines turn out to come back later and become much more important, and discussion like this can help jog your memory when that happens and you can't quite remember where you've seen that character before.  Also, it can be great fun to try to figure out what all the numerous foreshadowings and (especially) prophecies and such mean and debate your theories.  Many of them have, of course, been resolved already in the course of the existing 11 books, but there are still plenty left.

For a good example of foreshadowing entirely in EotW, think back to Moiraine's explanation to Nynaeve about what usually happens with someone with the spark who is not taught, and consider certain things that happen to and near Rand.  For example, Moiraine trying to banish Bela's fatigue and discovering that someone had already done it, Rand feeling and acting strangely when meeting the Children of the Light, the oh-so-fortuitous lightning breaking open a way out when he needed to escape, Rand developing a short spontaneous fever with no apparent cause, etc.  Rand goes through exactly what Moiraine explained, and if you notice that connection it becomes quite obvious that Rand has the spark and is beginning to channel well before they actually reach the Eye of the World and fight Aginor.

When you finish book 10, go look up the Wheel of Time FAQ (just google it).  You could look earlier, but beware of spoilers.  MANY spoilers, discussed in great detail.  It has not been updated for Knife of Dreams and probably never will be, so reading through Crossroads of Twilight is enough to deal with any spoilers that aren't just (extraordinarily in depth) speculation.

BTW, does anyone have any idea why a dirty beggar is higher level than a non-dirty beggar?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2008, 05:13:37 AM by douglas »

Loud_G

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #69 on: December 05, 2008, 05:35:48 AM »
Wow you like Mat?? Most people hate him until around book 3 or 4.


Yeah that is pretty shocking. I really didn't like Mat and loved Perrin but as the story progresses that gets reversed, well, for me anyways.

Mat is too awesome for words. :)
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jjb

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #70 on: December 05, 2008, 11:30:37 AM »
Perrin is still my favorite character/storyline, but Mat definitely grew on me with the Band of the Red Hand and Daughter of Nine Moons(those names shouldn't spoil anything, should they?)

Shadowkiller

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #71 on: December 05, 2008, 07:25:29 PM »
Yeah, the Wheel of Time is one of my top two most favorite series (the other is Mistborn, and I'm not sure which I like better), and talking about it with someone as he goes through it himself for the first time is quite enjoyable.

It's amazing how many seemingly minor characters and plot lines turn out to come back later and become much more important, and discussion like this can help jog your memory when that happens and you can't quite remember where you've seen that character before.  Also, it can be great fun to try to figure out what all the numerous foreshadowings and (especially) prophecies and such mean and debate your theories.  Many of them have, of course, been resolved already in the course of the existing 11 books, but there are still plenty left.

For a good example of foreshadowing entirely in EotW, think back to Moiraine's explanation to Nynaeve about what usually happens with someone with the spark who is not taught, and consider certain things that happen to and near Rand.  For example, Moiraine trying to banish Bela's fatigue and discovering that someone had already done it, Rand feeling and acting strangely when meeting the Children of the Light, the oh-so-fortuitous lightning breaking open a way out when he needed to escape, Rand developing a short spontaneous fever with no apparent cause, etc.  Rand goes through exactly what Moiraine explained, and if you notice that connection it becomes quite obvious that Rand has the spark and is beginning to channel well before they actually reach the Eye of the World and fight Aginor.

When you finish book 10, go look up the Wheel of Time FAQ (just google it).  You could look earlier, but beware of spoilers.  MANY spoilers, discussed in great detail.  It has not been updated for Knife of Dreams and probably never will be, so reading through Crossroads of Twilight is enough to deal with any spoilers that aren't just (extraordinarily in depth) speculation.

BTW, does anyone have any idea why a dirty beggar is higher level than a non-dirty beggar?
Hey watch what you're saying, man. Some of that could still be considered spoilers at the point in the books he's in.   This is the type of stuff that is supposed to wait for the second reading of the series.    Some of the best things about the books is that they foreshadow so much that at the end of every book, you can sit down and speculate on things to come.   For instance, Min made a bunch of readings on all the characters, what might they mean?   That's some of the best stuff.   Much of it is still unanswered even at this point including the infamous, "Who killed (name removed for spoilers sake)," question.   Anyone who is a fan of the series INSTANTLY knows who I'm talking about.   Its part of what makes it so awesome.

As for dirty beggar being higher level than a non-dirty begger, my guess is that its very based on the timewasters idea behind the forums.   Any beggar who is clean is obviously not wasting enough time.   Makes it all that much more funny when you start looking at the other levels.

douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #72 on: December 05, 2008, 07:56:48 PM »
Hey watch what you're saying, man. Some of that could still be considered spoilers at the point in the books he's in.
Er, what in that post could possibly be a spoiler?  As far as I can tell I mentioned nothing about the plot other than extreme generalities and things in EotW, which he already finished.

Shadowkiller

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #73 on: December 05, 2008, 09:18:53 PM »
Er, what in that post could possibly be a spoiler?  As far as I can tell I mentioned nothing about the plot other than extreme generalities and things in EotW, which he already finished.
If I said, then it would be a spoiler.   Pointing out lesser noticed details in general can help give away things that aren't confirmed for several books.   The details are there so that when you go back, you get an "OH!" type moment.   Imagine watching a movie with a friend who has already seen it and every 5 minutes he points out something to you sand says, "keep an eye on that", or "watch this!"   You'd notice things you weren't intended to notice and it might just ruin the movie.   Sixth sense, for instance.   If you point out that she never actually talks to him, it would ruin the movie.   My friend almost ruined Fight Club by pausing it at just the right moments to show the secret frames.

Now I wasn't saying that you actually said a spoiler, I was saying that depending on your viewpoint, some of what you said COULD be considered a spoiler under some circumstance.   Best not to point out details unless the person comes asking about it and even then, don't explain it, just give hints or say RAFO.

mtbikemom

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #74 on: December 09, 2008, 09:19:12 PM »
Just wondering why no one has mentioned Encyclopedia WOT?  I have found this site invaluable when I run across a character that I don't remember.  It is exhaustive, to the point of TMI sometimes, but so very helpful for those of us with older brains.

 I did have one important plot development ruined once when I read too far down a character's time line, but, with discipline, this site can help one through books 6-11.  I even recommend reading the synopses of books 8 and 10 rather than the whole volumes rather than give up on the series in disgust. ;)   

I also have loved the audio books for my third time through WOT.  Bad pronunciations aside, I love having these stories read to me in preparation for book 12.  Go, Brandon!

Winter's Heart has enough good stuff in it, I think, to read through.  I'll listen to that one as soon as my free library finds it for me.  I just download on my computer, then onto my iPod, and erase when it's through.   

Fun to read JoeC's posts... keep it up!